Ideal HP290 14kW ASHP - how to optimise
Firstly well done, YOU are now in control which is a massive step forwards whatever happens next.
I have just a couple of comments:
Posted by: @cmartinbwmbaI then went into the loft
Grrr!
Why oh why do installers put the principal control box in the loft or in a cupboard. It should be somewhere accessible and representative. Very often its got a built in temperature sensor, which is why it should be somewhere representative, and anyway its what you use to control the system and also monitor what its doing. There is a reason it has a fancy display, they didnt go to all that effort purely for fun.
Grrr!
Posted by: @cmartinbwmbawhich is how I think one disables the room influence.
Probably but keep an eye on it to check that the flow temp is doing what you expect in relation to the Outdoor temp. It may direct it to use the internal sensor of the control box. As its in the loft thats probably OK because it will be cold so will just run at WC values - probably!
Posted by: @cmartinbwmbaI guess I just use my own thermometer(s) inside the house to adjust the WC levels, and get to work on the LSVs slowly.
No real need to use thermometers, your body tells you whether its comfortable or not!
Posted by: @cmartinbwmba- this seemed to simply turn the system off overnight and additionally probably made the DHW heating ineffective as there wasn't very warm water in the shower in the morning! So will stay away from this for now.
Agree you should stay away for now. Super silent may be the problem however, there are lower strength options available. But thats for later.
Posted by: @cmartinbwmbaI've also had advice to move onto Octopus Cosy for now - fixed vs variable: I'd have thought variable better so I can switch easily to Flux in the summer?
I find Cosy a difficult topic. IMHO its not really suited to heat pumps unless you have either a battery or a very oversized heat pump and a large slab to act as a heat storage. I use their EV tarrif because I have an EV. However you do have a battery so, provided you charge it fully in each of the cheap period its very likely a good choice.
Keep an eye on flow temperatures to make sure its following the WC curve, hopefully you can move to a lower one once things have settled down. I would suggest to turn it down one step per day max, if its not overheating by much, one step every 2 days. The curves are quite coarsly spaced so anything faster than that and the house probably wont settle.
Given the granularity of the weather curves you may possibly get to a point where curve n is too cool and curve n+1 is too warm. At this point I think you can program a custom curve thus creating an 'in-between'. I suggest to face that problem when and if it arises
Posted by: @cmartinbwmbaI don't think I can engineer a 'setback' in my current setup? Correct me if I am wrong.
You should be able to engineer a temporary switch off at least but it might be necessary to move the controller to somewhere sensible. I will have a quick skip read sometime in the next day or so to ascertain what control features this heat pump has. In the limit you can use the evohome if it has a master thermostat and is programmable. Set the target temperature to 30C during the non setback period and 10C during the setback period. That will switch the heat pump on and off. The question is - why do you want a setback? Is it for comfort (in which case would it suffice to turn down the temperature of the bedrooms permanently on the LSVs), or to save money. It may well not do the latter and indeed could cost more, particularly as one of your cheap rate periods is at night!
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa Thanks again for your help.
I'll stick with the LSVs for now and avoid a setback. The only thing that will change my mind on this is whether having the ASHP on overnight will be intolerable from an aural perspective - there is a constant high-pitched whine which I am asking the installer to investigate. There is a secondary pump, which I have experimented with turning down - am not convinced that this is the culprit. Ideal are completely uninterested in this problem at the moment and were also dismissive of my request for help in saving money/energy - hence my coming here.
Posted by: @cmartinbwmba@jamespa Thanks again for your help.
I'll stick with the LSVs for now and avoid a setback. The only thing that will change my mind on this is whether having the ASHP on overnight will be intolerable from an aural perspective - there is a constant high-pitched whine which I am asking the installer to investigate. There is a secondary pump, which I have experimented with turning down - am not convinced that this is the culprit. Ideal are completely uninterested in this problem at the moment and were also dismissive of my request for help in saving money/energy - hence my coming here.
Please feel free to post back if you have questions/things dont go as you expected/hoped. As I say this does take some elapsed time but if you are puzzling then just ask.
'Secondary pump' interesting, does that mean you have a buffer tank (a tank with 4 pipes/ports). If so thats disappointing as they can easily add 15% to the running costs and make fault diagnosis more difficult/impossible. Better installers hardly ever fit them and say that they are rarely if ever needed in a domestic environment. If its causing the whine, see if you can get your installer to take it out and turn the buffer tank into a 2 port volumiser in the flow!
With LSVs please note that most only have any control is the last turn (or even less) before they shut off completely. They are thus a pain to adjust, but it can be done. Fortunately rooms share heat so the settings dont have to be particularly accurate.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa here is a video of my setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qmw-T3AMg6825OThybDGz2hUq-1n0GLT/view?usp=drivesdk you can probably hear the whine. It seems to be most audible at the return flow pipe but is audible at the pump outside as well.
Posted by: @cmartinbwmba@jamespa here is a video of my setup https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qmw-T3AMg6825OThybDGz2hUq-1n0GLT/view?usp=drivesdk you can probably hear the whine. It seems to be most audible at the return flow pipe but is audible at the pump outside as well.
I cant hear anything unfortunately. I think the audio might somehow be corrupted.
Neat installation but there are a few things I would personally query:
- Im fairly certain that the vertical tank is a 4 port buffer tank I think, as I say above thats disappointing (but sadly not uncommon) as they can easily add 15% to the running costs and make fault diagnosis more difficult/impossible.
- The horizontal tank is presumably the DHW cylinder; its very disappointing its been placed horizontally as it means there will be little or no stratification, which is quite important for DHW particularly given your use pattern. Had the buffer tank been omitted it could have gone vertically where that is, and you probably wouldn't need the whining pump.
- The control box, integrated it seems with the wiring centre, is sited for maximum inconvenience!. There is a standalone controller which presumably can be sited remotely, but Im not sure if its compatible with the rest of your set up or not given you have the wiring centre/Control UI integrated. I think @ashp-bobba does Ideal so he might be able to advise on this
Hope the experiments are progressing, as I say keep an eye on FT as a function of OAT just to check its following the WC curve but otherwise be patient!
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa Brilliant thanks. Sorry for this - where do I find the flow temp? Is it on the main display?
Is it on the main display?
I think so, I would guess its either 35 or 39, hopefully the symbols are described somewhere in the manual. If you go down a level it should become clearer.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa Ah, I have never installed an Ideal unfortunately, I might be able to jump on later and take a look to see if I can help.
AAC Group Ltd covering the Kent Area for design, supply and installation of ASHP systems, service and maintenance, diagnostics and repairs.
Professional installer. Book a one-to-one consultation for pre- and post-installation advice, troubleshooting and system optimisation.
Sorry I thought you had. Someone on here used to rave about Ideal but I cant now remember who it was! Maybe @editor knows someone who can advise about the Ideal R290 controller.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
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