@razz I had my temperatures set at 18 and 21 and heatpump struggled to get to 21 until about 4pm. I set temps back to 19 and 21 and temp during the day is much better. I am currently monitoring usage but seems to be ok?

The following relates only to the temperatures, the noise matter is a separate one on which I wont comment.

Posted by: @razz

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The issue now is that 21c in the hallway, where the main temp sensor is, being 21 is no good cos my living room is at about 18c, which is too cold for my mum. It also doesn't eliminate the buzz from the secondary motor and buffer. 

Also, it looks like the radiator balancing is way off. Right now, my bathroom is 22.5c, hallway is 20.8c (target of 21c), and living room is 18.2c. 

OK so the only actual issue so far as I can see here is the living room.  So its simple:

• If there is a TRV and it isnt already set to maximum, set it to maximum
• If there isnt a TRV or there is but its already set to maximum, turn the LSV (the valve opposite the TRV) up one quarter of a turn.  Leave for 24 hrs.  Repeat until the LSV is fully open or the room is at the desired temperature.  Preferably count the turns so you can reset it.
• If neither of the above fix the problem then the system needs either a higher flow temperature and/or a more major rebalancing.

The reality of life is that installers can do an approximate balancing but cant possibly do it perfectly because they simply don't have (and cant realistically obtain) the information.  Most of the time approximate is good enough, but occasionally it isnt.  At this point either they must be asked to return or the householder needs to intervene.

The alternative to this is to operate the system (whether the heat source is a boiler or a heat pump) in the same way as we usually operate a boiler in the UK. This doesn't depend on balanced radiators (which is why its attractive to installers) but ultimately leads to a much lower level of comfort than is achievable if the radiators are correctly balanced, irrespective of whether the heat source is a boiler or a heat pump.

In simple terms you have to choose between radiator balancing, in which the householder must currently play a part in some cases, or maximum comfort.  This choice is independent of whether the heat source is a heat pump or a boiler because its about the behaviour of the radiators not the heat source.

@razz the problem you are experiencing is because Octopus like you to run the heat pump thermostatically.  Essentially, the whole house is being heated, or not, based on the heat loss of the area that the primary pod is in.  Any room with a greater heat loss will cool down; any room with a lower heat loss will heat up.  If the heat loss of your hallway is quite slow, you may find that the cooler rooms get slowly cooler as when the heating does come on, it isn’t on long enough.  Balancing will help to some degree but you need to find a better place for the primary pod.  

None of this is helped by the fact that Octopus design radiator sizing to meet MCS recommended temperatures at your design temp: for the hallway, IIRC, that will be 18c (note, 18c with a flow temp of 50c at your design temp which might be -3 or -2 depends where you live) so in theory it should be able to achieve a warmer temp with the current outside air temp.  You could try placing the primary pod in the living room so that room drives the heating of the house.  Perhaps you know of a room that has a higher heat loss than your hallway?  The other thing is to adjust your weather compensation curve: in the app, increase the temp for cold and warm weather by 1c and see if that helps - try increasing until it does.  What is it currently set to? If that just makes it noisy again, it’s something to tell the engineer. Keep the requested set temps/schedule the same for now.  On Monday tell the engineer that the house is unbalanced, not heating properly and you need it resolving asap alongside the noise problem as it is too cold for your elderly mother.

@l2jad I had a call with someone from MCS last week who called to check in on the status of the install. Told me to call them if I wasn't happy with the HP in a week. I imagine it's possible to go back, otherwise there would be a lot of people left holding the bag on crappy installs. 

My family generally needs a bit more warmth, we're Asian, and I take meds that reduce circulation. 

They changed 5 radiators, two seems to be "oversized" (i.e. warmer than the hall), and one massively undersized. 

I left the flow temp to the 36/55 that's default on the app. I had set it to 36/50 for a week or two at one point, didn't notice any meaningful difference.

I'm not willing to go to higher flow temp, my bills are higher now, for lower overall house temps. 

Having watched Mars' video on buffers, it really seems like that could be the fix for my problem, but after 3 seperate enquiries they still haven't provided me with an answer as to why they chose a buffer over a volumiser.

TBH, I'm not in the mood to "fine tune" or configure shit, I'm busy enough as it is. 

@andrewj Thanks for the info.

I was told by the Octopus people that the primary pod should be in the part of the house with the most consistent temps. They themselves put in the hall. Told me not to move it, or touch the TRV on the hallway radiator. 

For now I won't touch the flow temps, I've left them on the defaults, since Octopus are monitoring the system. I'll see what they say, and deal with it after.

@razz they told me that as well, but they don’t live in my house and the primary pod in the hallway leads to the problem that I explained. Putting it into the living room helped until my wife and I went in in the evening at which point our bodies were able to raise the temperature there by 0.5c so it stayed over the set temp and the heating went off and the rest of the house cooled down.  It is now in my downstairs toilet which seems to maintain the rest of the house at 22c - 23c.  But that’s my house with 10 out of 15 radiators oversized.

It does sound like the radiators need balancing to match the way your house works.  That tends to be an operation that is carried out over days, not one off: Octopus may send an engineer to balance them to get the same temperature across the flow and return (5c drop) but after that it’s probably a job for yourself.  James explained how and it takes seconds per radiator after which you need to leave it for at least 24 hours.

First thing though is to find a better place for the Primary Pod: you can leave the set temp and flow temps alone for now if you desire.

Posted by: @razz

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It also looks like the HP is struggling to get up to 21c. The issue now is that 21c in the hallway, where the main temp sensor is, being 21 is no good cos my living room is at about 18c, which is too cold for my mum. It also doesn't eliminate the buzz from the secondary motor and buffer. 

Also, it looks like the radiator balancing is way off. Right now, my bathroom is 22.5c, hallway is 20.8c (target of 21c), and living room is 18.2c. 

How much longer must I put up with this? When do I just say enough is enough and demand they just install a boiler?

You’re going to have to be a lot more patient than this I’m afraid, but the good news is you’re hitting target temps in the hallway and bathroom. There’ll be loads of homes that don’t even accomplish that.

Since you’ve got rads everywhere your different rooms at different temperatures is almost certainly a balancing issue as you’ve identified and it’ll be more pronounced when it gets colder outside. Get that addressed next.

For the most part things are heading in the direction. Stay the course. You’re getting there.

@jamespa Alright, I'll try to balance the living radiator myself tomorrow. 

Thanks all for the tips. Hopefully that will help.

Any idea why the hallway has been struggling to get up to temp the last few days? They told me they sent the new update last night, so I don't think that's it.

I just want to repeat and emphasise that, in simple terms, you have to choose between radiator balancing, in which the householder must currently play a part in some cases, or maximum comfort.  This choice is independent of whether the heat source is a heat pump or a boiler, because its about the behaviour of the radiators and the house not the heat source.

Stay the course and you will very probably achieve  much higher level of comfort than you ever will with a boiler based system (at least one set up as we almost invariably do set it up).

Up until the introduction of heat pumps more or less the only people in the UK* who experienced the significant comfort benefits of low temperature operation (which you aren't yet seeing) were those with underfloor heating.   Heat pumps are spreading those benefits to the majority with radiators, but it takes some adjustment, both in terms of how we think about and operate the systems and of the systems themselves.  Stay the course and take the time to develop a bit of understanding and you should see the benefits.

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* its worth saying that there are more enlightened countries in mainland europe that have had these benefits for two decades, unfortunately our heating industry is largely stone age so we haven't had the comfort benefits and have been paying roughly 10% more for our heating that was necessary.  Heat pumps are forcing the industry to enter the 21st century but we, as customers, also need to adapt and learn if we are to get the enhanced level of comfort that a well adjusted system can deliver.

Posted by: @razz

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I was told by the Octopus people that the primary pod should be in the part of the house with the most consistent temps.

Does your hallway really have most consistent temperature or was it just easiest for Octopus to install your pod there?

This is nothing more than guidance, but our main thermostat (pod) lives in a place that is most ‘neutral’. Our main living areas are the warmest and get a lot of solar gain. Our TV room is the coldest as is the rest of the north facing part of the house. So ours lives in the hallway because it’s the ‘middle’ temperature of the house and that works for us to deliver and call for heat most uniformly. 

Like @andrewj says, it’s about figuring out which room in your house that is.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Stay the course and you will very probably achieve  much higher level of comfort than you ever will with a boiler based system (at least one set up as we almost invariably do set it up).

This is so true! Once you’ve managed to get things right, the constant, gentle heat of a heat pump is far superior to boiler heat. 

Posted by: @razz

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Any idea why the hallway has been struggling to get up to temp the last few days? They told me they sent the new update last night, so I don't think that's it.

When you say 'struggling to get up to temp' what do you mean?  The default design temp for hallways is 18 so if its reaching that it is getting up to the temp it was designed for, which doesn't mean its not capable of achieving it, just that it currently isnt adjusted to do so.

I note your comment that you like things a bit warmer than the 'defaults'.  Thats fine, I think with an Octopus system you just have to turn up the target temp on the main pod.

Try to adjust only one thing at a time otherwise you may get things confused.  Expect it to take several weeks but, once done, you should rarely if ever have to touch it.  Im now into my second season with a heat pump and my wife (who was initially anti) still frequently remarks how much more comfortable it makes the house.  However you do have to be a bit patient with the adjustment to get to this stage.