Posted by: @batalto

@heacol question? Could I simply get a plumber in and installer a manual diverter around the parts you note? It's something I might consider as it's reversible if needed. I did speak to a plumber the other day and he was very hesitant to change anything as he wasn't sure if it might impact (or damage) the HP.

As an experiment it might be very interesting

That is an excellent question. I'd be curious to know the answer to this. And what happens to the buffer tank. Does it just sit there full of water or does it need to get drained?

Posted by: @sam

Hi, any thoughts on using an electric boiler as a back up/ booster for an ashp in the cold (sub 4°) weather? I don't have gas at the property ( although could get it at a cost) and thought I'd hit upon a solution.

However, can't actually find any installers to ask. Do they actually exist?

Sam. 

Hi Sam. How are you guys getting along? Did you ever resolve this issue? I'm gathering by your questions that you're still looking for solutions.

Hi Everyone,

There has been a great deal of discussion over the past few days concerning the design, operation and optimisation of ASHP's. Because systems are different, it is probable that what works fine in one situation, will not work so well in another case. What I suggest is collectively we try to explore different ideas to see what may work best in different situations. Those of you on the forum who are willing to spend a little time monitoring the effect of slight changes, would allow for improvements to be quantified for the benefit of others. It would be highly useful if some of the members who have MMSP installed, could check and feedback details on operational changes.

Posted by: @derek-m

Hi Everyone,

There has been a great deal of discussion over the past few days concerning the design, operation and optimisation of ASHP's. Because systems are different, it is probable that what works fine in one situation, will not work so well in another case. What I suggest is collectively we try to explore different ideas to see what may work best in different situations. Those of you on the forum who are willing to spend a little time monitoring the effect of slight changes, would allow for improvements to be quantified for the benefit of others. It would be highly useful if some of the members who have MMSP installed, could check and feedback details on operational changes.

I certainly would also be interested in having my current buffered system adapted. With MMSP installed we could easily see the difference and end up with concrete 'comparison' proof.

Having said that, @kev-m, I believe you have the same HP as me, Mitsubishi Ecodan 14kW R32. Once you get your MMSP installed correctly we should be able to get a rough comparison between buffered and non buffered systems if we use the same settings.

Posted by: @markc

Posted by: @derek-m

Hi Everyone,

There has been a great deal of discussion over the past few days concerning the design, operation and optimisation of ASHP's. Because systems are different, it is probable that what works fine in one situation, will not work so well in another case. What I suggest is collectively we try to explore different ideas to see what may work best in different situations. Those of you on the forum who are willing to spend a little time monitoring the effect of slight changes, would allow for improvements to be quantified for the benefit of others. It would be highly useful if some of the members who have MMSP installed, could check and feedback details on operational changes.

I certainly would also be interested in having my current buffered system adapted. With MMSP installed we could easily see the difference and end up with concrete 'comparison' proof.

Having said that, @kev-m, I believe you have the same HP as me, Mitsubishi Ecodan 14kW R32. Once you get your MMSP installed correctly we should be able to get a rough comparison between buffered and non buffered systems if we use the same settings.

I'd be up for that. I'm planning to make some changes in the next few days and would be open to suggestions.  My MMSP is monitoring by the minute consumption and flow temperatures and Melcloud is working; the only thing I can't do is delivered energy and hence COP.  

@sam I am not sure what problems you are having but I can try to help. You can give me a call on 07883064216 on Monday.

@heacol 

Hi Brendon,  where are you based?

@kev-m I am willing to help you to get your system running in the most efficient way, if only to prove my point. It is not only buffer tanks that is the problem, it is also third party controllers. Why the problems arrise is very complicated and has to do with the performance curves of your heat pump, double pumping the water, mixing water flow and returns, thermal mass of your buildign to mention a few. Tuning a heat pump is actually very simple but difficult to explain why it works.

@morgan I am in South Cumbria.

Posted by: @kev-m

Posted by: @markc

Posted by: @derek-m

Hi Everyone,

There has been a great deal of discussion over the past few days concerning the design, operation and optimisation of ASHP's. Because systems are different, it is probable that what works fine in one situation, will not work so well in another case. What I suggest is collectively we try to explore different ideas to see what may work best in different situations. Those of you on the forum who are willing to spend a little time monitoring the effect of slight changes, would allow for improvements to be quantified for the benefit of others. It would be highly useful if some of the members who have MMSP installed, could check and feedback details on operational changes.

I certainly would also be interested in having my current buffered system adapted. With MMSP installed we could easily see the difference and end up with concrete 'comparison' proof.

Having said that, @kev-m, I believe you have the same HP as me, Mitsubishi Ecodan 14kW R32. Once you get your MMSP installed correctly we should be able to get a rough comparison between buffered and non buffered systems if we use the same settings.

I'd be up for that. I'm planning to make some changes in the next few days and would be open to suggestions.  My MMSP is monitoring by the minute consumption and flow temperatures and Melcloud is working; the only thing I can't do is delivered energy and hence COP.  

You need to get the MMSP fixed as it's the COP we are interested in.

Posted by: @heacol

@kev-m I am willing to help you to get your system running in the most efficient way, if only to prove my point. It is not only buffer tanks that is the problem, it is also third party controllers. Why the problems arrise is very complicated and has to do with the performance curves of your heat pump, double pumping the water, mixing water flow and returns, thermal mass of your buildign to mention a few. Tuning a heat pump is actually very simple but difficult to explain why it works.

@heacol,

Brendan, that's very good of you, I would be happy to be a guinea pig (up to a point!). I'll try and draw a schematic of the system because I don't think the supplier did. 

Posted by: @heacol

@kev-m I am willing to help you to get your system running in the most efficient way, if only to prove my point. It is not only buffer tanks that is the problem, it is also third party controllers. Why the problems arrise is very complicated and has to do with the performance curves of your heat pump, double pumping the water, mixing water flow and returns, thermal mass of your buildign to mention a few. Tuning a heat pump is actually very simple but difficult to explain why it works.

@heacol

Should this offer been directed at @batalto who initially asked the question about changing the system? @kev-m already has an unbuffered system and at the moment we don't know what COP that is running at due to MMSP issues.