Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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As a quick reality check, any wallbox with a display (sadly a minority) and a button or two does allow you to sort out the charging entirely manually. It is only the (majority) units with no buttons or display that rely entirely on an app. I should also say that I have no idea if plugging the car in and then using the car's "charge immediately" function would control the wallbox in any way since I haven't tried doing that; anyone else here who can comment on that?

Interestingly mine (vchargd) has a Bluetooth connection for the installer that does not appear to rely on any cloud.  One of the installer settings is 'charge whenever plugged in'.  I am hoping that this bypasses everything except the cable presence sensor, it certainly appeared to when it was left like that by the installer!

Posted by: @jamespa

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For me the granny charger was the only thing I used.  I let the battery discharge to say 30% before charging for several successive nights.  I

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Posted by: @jamespa

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For me the granny charger was the only thing I used.  I let the battery discharge to say 30% before charging for several successive nights.  I only used/use a public charger when away from home.  A good friend of mine with a Tesla does the exact same.

Thanks, a friend of ours says that this is what they do. I expect that Mrs Rusty will use around 50% total vehicle charge per week, and so a low power charger with occasional public charging should suffice at least initially, taking the pressure off any permanent solution. We are currently with Octopus, so I also need to consider the suitability of EV tariffs and also get a smart meter installed at that point.

Could I ask if you used a 13A 3-pin charger, and if so did you have any issues with domestic sockets? I could get a 16A charger with a CEE plug and mains adapter and wire in a CEE socket (assuming that is safe/allowed and subject to limiting the current rating).

 

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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That said, we don't really know what your appetite is for tinkering; whereabouts on a scale of technophobe to gadget freak do you sit?

Probably middling, I’m not really a gadget freak, though I’m happy to tinker where I have the time, which is generally the issue.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Interestingly mine (vchargd) has a Bluetooth connection for the installer that does not appear to rely on any cloud.

A few units seem to have Bluetooth, from my research, but as you say, they seem to use it to enable installer mode and WiFi pairing. I was hoping that there might have been a way of using this for control if WiFi/cloud went down, but my impression is that it can’t be easily used by the end user though I might be wrong.

Posted by: @rusty

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Thanks, a friend of ours says that this is what they do. I expect that Mrs Rusty will use around 50% total vehicle charge per week, and so a low power charger with occasional public charging should suffice at least initially, taking the pressure off any permanent solution. We are currently with Octopus, so I also need to consider the suitability of EV tariffs and also get a smart meter installed at that point.

Could I ask if you used a 13A 3-pin charger, and if so did you have any issues with domestic sockets? I could get a 16A charger with a CEE plug and mains adapter and wire in a CEE socket (assuming that is safe/allowed and subject to limiting the current rating).

No first hand experience, but from reading around you can purchase EV rated 3 pin sockets that are presumably of a higher grade.

What I can tell you is that a regular plug / socket can get VERY hot. In the past when Octopus Agile had negative pricing (they pay you to use electricity), I repeatedly boiled a 3kW kettle in the kitchen, and the plug and socket got quite hot over 5-10 mins. I would not want to pull 3kW through a regular plug and socket for extended periods, so at the very least I'd want to swap in an EV rated socket at the point I intended to plug in. But if you're replacing the socket anyway, may as well replace it with something dedicated to charging that is rated higher (such as a CEE socket) just to be safe, although obviously you would still be limited by the cabling and any MCB ratings as you say.

Posted by: @old_scientist

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No first hand experience, but from reading around you can purchase EV rated 3 pin sockets that are presumably of a higher grade.

What I can tell you is that a regular plug / socket can get VERY hot. In

I replaced a regular 3 pin socket with an EV rated one.  The regular one got hot, the EV rated one didn't.

Posted by: @old_scientist

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I repeatedly boiled a 3kW kettle in the kitchen, and the plug and socket got quite hot over 5-10 mins. I would not want to pull 3kW through a regular plug and socket for extended periods

Yeah that's normal

Copper is expensive, and the kettle is rated for intermittent use, so they're not going to fit a plug and cable rated for constant use.

Also the cable to an appliance is rated based on free air cooling, so thin wire is okay, whereas the cable in the walls is rated based on being buried in insulation, with very little cooling, thus more copper is required for the same current.

Likewise, "16A" euro wall sockets are rated for 16A peak, 10A constant.

Socket contact material needs to be springy, remain springy after many uses, be a good conductor, not create oxides that increase contact resistance... The cheap option is brass, but it suffers from fatigue so after many insertions it will no longer hold the plug contact tight, thus higher resistance, more heating,  eventually fire. Phosphor bronze is much better, a bit more expensive, but worth it.

EV rated sockets also have silver plated contacts and other improvements, and can take thicker wires too.

"Granny chargers" usually have a temperature probe in the male socket to avoid fire.

“The wife will be getting a Kia EV2 Air. As we are about 11 miles from the nearest reliable public charger, although she will regularly be near some other options that are about 20 miles distant, that is why I was looking at a wall box as an option. I may consider a “granny charger” as an initial fallback if it looks like it will take me too long to organise a wall box (prevarication is my middle name), limited to 10A and with the wiring checked and a 13A EV rated socket probably inside the garage. PEN protection worries me slightly in this case.”

Are you aware that the Kia EV2 is one of the few models which will do vehicle to home/grid with an appropriate wall-box. That makes the NexBlue Point 2 a particularly useful one to consider.

You then have a very large battery on your drive to power the house. Or can sell back to the grid if you are so inclined.

If you do go that route then please keep posting as you use it, since that combination is just what I might want if/when I eventually get around to an EV.

Posted by: @judith

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Are you aware that the Kia EV2 is one of the few models which will do vehicle to home/grid with an appropriate wall-box. That makes the NexBlue Point 2 a particularly useful one to consider.

Yes, that is the case, but as I understand it not as an option, you have to go right up to the GT Line S, which costs about £8k more. We didn’t consider this at the time, but it may actually be a good deal if you want to use this mode, and because you get all the other toys as well. Kia and a few other manufacturers seem to have gone over to a limited range of fixed specification models at various price points, or with a “First Edition” version loaded with toys that is cheaper than building from scratch from the base model. I believe that this is to avoid the problem of special builds and just have a neat just build this production line. It’s all a compromise, there were a few extra features that we might have liked, blind spot cameras, parking view, etc.

I quite like the NexBlue Point 2, if I can get past the marketing and get a better understanding (it’s all there I think, but our internet is having trouble loading it - another reason for not being web tied).

If I’m correct, the S&P Home Series 3 and NexBlue Point 2 seem to have local app control via Bluetooth as standard, so if the web goes down, you can still control the charging.

Thank you Rusty, all of those subtleties were lost on me. Since I’m only ever a second-hand car buyer it does mean I will have limited options, but knowing all of this in advance always helps.

Posted by: @rusty

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@majordennisbloodnok Thank you for your insights, you seem to have hit several key ownership points at once. I too am somewhat concerned about tying into a particular manufacturer/supplier support for similar reasons as you state.

I note that the with one supplier 4G support only lasts for 3 years and then becomes a paid for option without which the unit seems to revert to a max charge only mode. Not ideal, and given that we have poor and unreliable 4G anyway, then I will probably discount these.

I was not aware of the customer support issues with the MyEnergi/Zappi range, but that would put me off. As you say reputation and customer support are a high priority as is a local installer base.

I’m not mad keen on WiFi, due to the thick walls we have both externally and internally. Fixed wiring would have been better but somehow got forgotten about when refurbishing. I’m particularly annoyed about failing to put an Ethernet link into the duct to the garage when the new mains cable was laid. It was in my head, just never got translated to the specification. I did say it was painful. Not sure that the wife will let me string cables around the new refurb.

Not much to add to Majors comments. Personally, the disadvantage of having a charger relying on 4G was that even if our signal may be good, when I had issues that we needed to raise with the charger company (and I posted quite a bit here about those issues), they kept using 4G connectivity as an excuse (and it clearly had nothing to do with it). 

Wifi connectivity is not usually an issue, ethernet may end up with you needing to use a wifi repeater or ethernet over power to get the signal to where the cable will go. 

Posted by: @rusty

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The wife will be getting a Kia EV2 Air. As we are about 11 miles from the nearest reliable public charger, although she will regularly be near some other options that are about 20 miles distant, that is why I was looking at a wall box as an option. I may consider a “granny charger” as an initial fallback if it looks like it will take me too long to organise a wall box (prevarication is my middle name), limited to 10A and with the wiring checked and a 13A EV rated socket probably inside the garage. PEN protection worries me slightly in this case.

If I wanted another smart charger, I would evaluate Wallbox. Worth checking if the charger can connect to the KIA API to find the car battery state of charge (unless the KIA has a sensible way to set max charge, etc - unlike mine that always charges to 100%).   

If you plan to have a home battery and/or solar soon, perhaps to do that before getting an EV charger and rely on a granny charger until then. And use a simple smart plug to charge when your electricity is cheap. 

A neighbour had to wait over a month to get his EV charger installed.. We had ours done ages ago, and well before we bought the BEV. 

Posted by: @batpred

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Not much to add to Majors comments. Personally, the disadvantage of having a charger relying on 4G was that even if our signal may be good, when I had issues that we needed to raise with the charger company (and I posted quite a bit here about those issues), they kept using 4G connectivity as an excuse (and it clearly had nothing to do with it). 

Wifi connectivity is not usually an issue, ethernet may end up with you needing to use a wifi repeater or ethernet over power to get the signal to where the cable will go.

Thanks. Yes, we have patchy 4G. The only option we had for “high speed” broadband was a FWA system, the supplier always blames WiFi positioning issues for poor performance, I doubt it, I’ve tested it reasonably well.

I can add a repeater, possibly even in the meter cupboard if necessary, or a mesh node, this works. Ethernet and other wired connections I think I will treat as a nice to have for future expansion.

Posted by: @batpred

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If you plan to have a home battery and/or solar soon, perhaps to do that before getting an EV charger and rely on a granny charger until then. And use a simple smart plug to charge when your electricity is cheap. 

Yes, I’ve come to the conclusion that the granny charger and upgraded socket should be adequate initially while I work on the more complex issues and get quotes. Kicking the can down the road and probably creating another hill to die on later, but needs must. I need to revisit the requirements specification, but ease of use, installation, weather protection and expandability/future proofing are high on the list. Solar/battery keeps getting pushed down the priority order on my ever expanding todo list, but would be nice to have built in options.

Posted by: @batpred

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If I wanted another smart charger, I would evaluate Wallbox.

I have come across these, but the Trustpilot reviews are pretty off putting, though I don’t always trust Trustpilot. S&P also seem to have some support issues, although all of them seem to in some sense.

Posted by: @batpred

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Worth checking if the charger can connect to the KIA API to find the car battery state of charge (unless the KIA has a sensible way to set max charge, etc - unlike mine that always charges to 100%).

indeed, thanks, a question to ask.