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Air source heat pump performance

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by batalto 4 years ago
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Morgan
 Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 698
06/11/2021 9:35 am  
Posted by: @heacol

@morgan I am in South Cumbria.

@heacol

A lovely part of the world but sadly too far away from me.  Do you know of anybody in the Derbyshire area that could adapt my install should I choose that route?

 


Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.
14 x 500w Monocrystalline solar panels.

2 ESS Smile G3 10.1 batteries.
ESS Smile G3 5kw inverter.


   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
06/11/2021 9:45 am  
Posted by: @editor
Posted by: @batalto

@heacol question? Could I simply get a plumber in and installer a manual diverter around the parts you note? It's something I might consider as it's reversible if needed. I did speak to a plumber the other day and he was very hesitant to change anything as he wasn't sure if it might impact (or damage) the HP.

As an experiment it might be very interesting

That is an excellent question. I'd be curious to know the answer to this. And what happens to the buffer tank. Does it just sit there full of water or does it need to get drained?

There is an easy way to check and and can easily be done by anyone with a little mechanical aptitude. The buffer tank has 4 pipes, Identify the return pipes, from the heating system and back to the heat pump, remove these pipes from the buffer tank, blank off the outlets and join the 2 pipes together, this can be done with probably £20.00 worth of fittings from a mearchant (or B&Q). A system equaliser( a copper or steel pipe where both flow and return pipes are joined allowing flow to mix) opperates the same as a buffer tank.

Then turn all your common area thermostats and TRV's up full to make sure they do not interrup the system (leave your bedroom ones controllong), set your heat pump to an initial compensation curve of 25 flow=18 external, if under floor 40 flow = -3 external, if radiators 50 flow =-3 ret. Then adjust this curve, easy on the ecodan, just sift up or down untill you get a comfortable room temperature.

This will give you a better perfomance but you are still double or tripple pumping the water (£100.00 per year per pump added to your electricity bill) and powering all the unecessary controllers, actuators and valves that have been installed.

 



   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
06/11/2021 9:50 am  

@markc I am willing to help anyone to improve their system. I am fed up with people installing systems poorly and sayling that is how it works because they do not know what they are doing. It is not fair on you, and you are paying the price, it is not right.

Heat pumps are a fantastic technology, unfortunatly the reputation is being trashed by the system and poor installations.



   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
06/11/2021 9:52 am  

@morgan I can talk any plumber through it if you are willing.



   
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 MarkC
(@markc)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 97
06/11/2021 9:57 am  
Posted by: @heacol

@markc I am willing to help anyone to improve their system. I am fed up with people installing systems poorly and sayling that is how it works because they do not know what they are doing. It is not fair on you, and you are paying the price, it is not right.

Heat pumps are a fantastic technology, unfortunatly the reputation is being trashed by the system and poor installations.

Thanks Brendon. You having described a buffer tanks piping has made me question whether I have one installed. Is this the buffer tank?

7E057256 8C6C 4BB7 8BFA F3ACCC9AB6F7


   
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Morgan
 Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 698
06/11/2021 10:03 am  
Posted by: @heacol

@morgan I can talk any plumber through it if you are willing.

@heacol

I will give it some serious thought for the future.  However, for now, I have to give my installer the chance to at least get this system running as he intended before looking elsewhere.  It was only commissioned on Tuesday.  Whilst the house is nice and warm the system isn't responding to the room stat (your favourite............. Neostat 😆 ).  Hence it just keeps on heating to the point I have to power it all off at night.  In the morning I power it back on.  I am waiting for a call back from the installer which won't be until after the weekend now.

 


Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.
14 x 500w Monocrystalline solar panels.

2 ESS Smile G3 10.1 batteries.
ESS Smile G3 5kw inverter.


   
ReplyQuote



Morgan
 Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 698
06/11/2021 10:07 am  

 

A492FC35 D553 45BE 8B8A F62A54C24B80

@markc 

Snap.  I appear to have an extra one.  Are one or both of these buffer tanks I wonder?


Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.
14 x 500w Monocrystalline solar panels.

2 ESS Smile G3 10.1 batteries.
ESS Smile G3 5kw inverter.


   
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 Kev M
(@kev-m)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1276
06/11/2021 10:16 am  

One will be an expansion vessel for the cylinder. This is mine; the only one I have.

IMG 20211106 091246

 



   
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 batalto
(@batalto)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1092
06/11/2021 10:24 am  

@heacol I have a plumber looking at my system in terms of the pump. I'm sure he would be open to understanding the changes if we could make them reversible via a bypass valve. He doesn't know heat pumps and is reluctant to make permanent changes which could do damage something

 


12kW Midea ASHP - 8.4kw solar - 29kWh batteries
262m2 house in Hampshire
Current weather compensation: 47@-2 and 31@17
My current performance can be found - HERE
Heat pump calculator spreadsheet - HERE


   
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 MarkC
(@markc)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 97
06/11/2021 10:26 am  

Has anyone got an example photo of a buffer tank that we are thinking are the problem?



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
06/11/2021 11:13 am  
Posted by: @markc

Has anyone got an example photo of a buffer tank that we are thinking are the problem?

Mark,

Just Google 'Buffer Tank' and you should see plenty. It is basically similar to a hot water tank, but has 4 pipe connections, 2 at the top and 2 at the bottom, on opposite sides of the tank.



   
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Morgan
 Morgan
(@morgan)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 698
06/11/2021 11:19 am  
Posted by: @derek-m
Posted by: @markc

Has anyone got an example photo of a buffer tank that we are thinking are the problem?

Mark,

Just Google 'Buffer Tank' and you should see plenty. It is basically similar to a hot water tank, but has 4 pipe connections, 2 at the top and 2 at the bottom, on opposite sides of the tank.

@derek-m

It appears neither of mine in the photo are buffer tanks. It would be interesting to know what they are though.

 


Retrofitted 11.2kw Mitsubishi Ecodan to new radiators commissioned November 2021.
14 x 500w Monocrystalline solar panels.

2 ESS Smile G3 10.1 batteries.
ESS Smile G3 5kw inverter.


   
ReplyQuote



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