@derek-m 

Sorry for the delay

 

I do not think I have a low loss header looking at the schematic (see below)

We are using more energy than we did before. Our home is insulated internally on the old part of our home and internally and externally on a 10 year old extension. Our home is a semi- detatched - our attached neighbours home is warm everywhere and her bills were similar to ours until the recent cold weather. Also a friend had very very similar bills to ours and both people have told me about any cut backs they have been making due to recent energy increases and they both say their meter readings are roughly half ours. 

We have used around 600kw so far, last month it was 400kw

I an afraid I do not have readings of the gas combi before. I could kick myself for having a big 'tidy up' with my paperwork a few months ago and throwing out old bills etc. I do understand this is an important factor when whingeing about high kw's.

I have been making my own assumptions, going from my friend and my neighbours readings that used to be very simlar

 

I looked at the heat loss calculations as a novice, after reading about them on heatgeek and I do not think they are correct:

The Family room is the best insulated room in the house with a 63.95W/m2 - this room was 16C the other morning

The living 2 is insulated well is open plan with a kitchen  but has one 3x 3.5m window and a 4m bifold and a 3 metres high ceiling. It does take a lot to heat it. with a  62.27w/m2 - this room was 12C the other morning after the heating being on continously for 24 hours and all other underfloor heating zones turned off

Living room 1 (downstairs) is the same size as Bedroom 1 (upstairs) why are the w/m2 different?

The heat loss chap was only in our home for a short while

- I'm was under the impression he should have been measuring windows, thickness of walls, in the loft etc etc

 

It would not be so bad paying the extra cost, if my home was warm, not cold. My wife suffers with the cold due to an illness, which is why i need to find out if its the pump setting etc. or it is just not up to the job and maybe get a bigger pump or replace with a combi boiler

Thanks

 

Schematic copy.pdf

 

3a. Heatloss Summary 2.pdf

Posted by: @parmstar

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sorry to hear this - we are having similar issues unfortunately! Ours has only been in 2 weeks so trying to exercise my consumer right to reject as it’s within 30 days - really wish I didn’t bother switching from gas! Been nothing but a nightmare.

@parmstar I understand and feel your pain

Good luck

 

@oswiu

Many thanks fro your tips

From memory, Rip Off Britain highlighted a couple who had paid out maybe around £18,000 for a heat pump and underfloor heating system and were left with a mess. UFH was fixed to an uninsulated concrete floor with tiles loosely placed covered with a carpet! It was dangerous. I feel we were lucky in regards to that. I felt really sorry for them. If you google Heroes Renewables you will find lots of info - their maintenance plans are still being offered!

The unit is about 2 metres up on the wall, above a path in between a garage and house,  mounted on brackets that I had to ask for them to fix correctly ( alarms bells should have rang out on the first day!) It is on an open wall , with nothing around it. Underneath a gate is maybe 1 metre below the front of the pump.

 

The pipework run is around 3 metres with insulated pipe from pump to house up the house wall, however, since I posted I am thinking of getting some metal boxing and inulating the pipework more, as I can see metal valves uninsulated, and thinking about the workmanship i do not think it is insulated enough and now wondering if this could be a big big loss as I am typing...hmmm..

Since the Mitsubishi contractor telling me to ignore the weather compensation it is now on around 55C alteredfrom 58C last week. Heroes Ren told me to keep it at 48C....

About the radiators, upstairs in the bedrooms , we do not really feel the cold in the morning or during nightime, so 16-17C was ok until recently when it went dowen to 14C. Heroes Ren did not suggedt anything like changeing the rads, but i had already read up about it and thought that I could replace then if needed

The house is internally insulated on all outside walls with laminated plasterboard. All oldwooden floors have UFH with insulation sealed in underneathon the old part of the house-retrofitted. The extension part has a mix of concrete ufh fllors and wood ufh. Loft is insulated as much as possible, where i can access apart from under exisiting loft boards. Double glazing is 25 years old  in old part of house. Extension has 10 years old glazing u- value 2.0 ??

 

Thanks

Posted by: @skd

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Hi.  Just a thought, but has your Ecodan been set to one of the two Quiet Mode settings? 

 

It's not visible on the normal FTC displays, but if you can access your Service menu and open Heat Pump Settings you can see and edit Quiet Mode.

 

There should be 3 levels, max being full power. 

So if you're on less than three dashes the rated capacity will be reduced. 

I forgot that ours had been turned down and had to turn it back up this week.

Hope you get things resolved soon 🤞

Many thanks for the info

I am going to investigate

Why did you have to turn it down, could you just adjust your heating or am i missing something?

Thanks for the photo

 

The controller has Quiet mode turned off

 I took my pizza oven temperature gun outside : The wall next to the pipework is 3.8C, the insulated pipework is 7C and the uninsulated valves are 11C, so that shows a loss! I don't think the pump was in operation just on tickover. I will think of a way to retro-insulate the pipework better than it is at present

Thanks

 

 

@goody

According to the schematic, it would appear that you do have a buffer tank or low loss header installed, it is the black vertical rectangular box at the bottom right hand side. I would suggest that you locate it and measure the temperature of the pipes going in and out. Also measure the temperature of your radiators and/or UFH.

Do you know how to obtain the operational data from your controller?

Posted by: @derek-m

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@goody

 

According to the schematic, it would appear that you do have a buffer tank or low loss header installed, it is the black vertical rectangular box at the bottom right hand side. I would suggest that you locate it and measure the temperature of the pipes going in and out. Also measure the temperature of your radiators and/or UFH.

Do you know how to obtain the operational data from your controller?

  I seem to remember that black box, but I have only got one of those infra red thermometer gun I use for my pizza oven, so maybe not as accurate as my old Anton gas analyser i sold last year. I suspect the pump will have to be in full working mode? I will try and do that in the morning.

I can probably find out how to find data from the controller. I have been into the engineers settings a few times to see if anything was obviously wrong as I am a bit of a novice/intermediate, so if you want to point me in the right direction . What data am I looking for

Thanks for your help

 

Posted by: @skd

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Posted by: @benseb

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Just to add, I’ve found my Ecodan excellent in this cold snap. It’s not faultered once and has kept us nice and warm. 

So if you can get the install and commissioning sorted, you can be reassured the actual heat pump is good (as long as corrrctly specced)

Yes definitely.  Excellent piece of kit so far,  now nearing first full yesr of service.  Not troubled at all by -8degC, snow, freezing fog etc recently.

 

I am green with envy 

I originally thought , 'great save the planet etc' now Putin is trying to destroy the planet - the energy crisis and the recent ' cold snap' has made me aware that all is not efficient with our heating system and it could be costing me an arm and a leg!

 

@goody

I can't remember what is available in the FTC, but make a note of whatever is available.

Posted by: @goody

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Posted by: @skd

↑

Posted by: @benseb

↑

Just to add, I’ve found my Ecodan excellent in this cold snap. It’s not faultered once and has kept us nice and warm. 

So if you can get the install and commissioning sorted, you can be reassured the actual heat pump is good (as long as corrrctly specced)

Yes definitely.  Excellent piece of kit so far,  now nearing first full yesr of service.  Not troubled at all by -8degC, snow, freezing fog etc recently.

 

I am green with envy 

I originally thought , 'great save the planet etc' now Putin is trying to destroy the planet - the energy crisis and the recent ' cold snap' has made me aware that all is not efficient with our heating system and it could be costing me an arm and a leg!

 

I may be wrong, but I think that the technical term for your heating system is 'Pig's Ear'. 😋 

The other thing that I forgot to mention is that if your 'calculated' heat loss at -3C is 8.1kW, then an 8.5kW heat pump is going to struggle below that temperature, even without a buffer tank or low loss header. Sorry to be the bearer of glad tidings.

 

Posted by: @goody

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Posted by: @skd

↑

Hi.  Just a thought, but has your Ecodan been set to one of the two Quiet Mode settings? 

 

It's not visible on the normal FTC displays, but if you can access your Service menu and open Heat Pump Settings you can see and edit Quiet Mode.

 

There should be 3 levels, max being full power. 

So if you're on less than three dashes the rated capacity will be reduced. 

I forgot that ours had been turned down and had to turn it back up this week.

Hope you get things resolved soon 🤞

Many thanks for the info

I am going to investigate

Why did you have to turn it down, could you just adjust your heating or am i missing something?

Thanks for the photo

 

The controller has Quiet mode turned off

-- Attachment is not available --

 I took my pizza oven temperature gun outside : The wall next to the pipework is 3.8C, the insulated pipework is 7C and the uninsulated valves are 11C, so that shows a loss! I don't think the pump was in operation just on tickover. I will think of a way to retro-insulate the pipework better than it is at present

Thanks

 

 

Ah ok, yes you're already on full power.

I turned our Ecodan down in the early days after speaking to Mitsubishi, when they explained that the quiet modes reduce noise simply by reducing maximum compressor power.  It was noticeably quieter (the 11.2kW is somewhat louder than the 8.5), and still ran well at the flow temperatures we needed.  In the very cold weather last week I noticed that the flow temperature was starting to lag behind the set point value, so I turned it back up again for a few days.

I just wondered whether yours might have been inadvertently commissioned with a quiet setting switched in.

 

 

Are you using MelCloud?  If so, you can select the flow and return temperature curves (in Reports, select Hourly Temperatures) and you can see if your actual flow temperatures are achieving the desired set point.

Posted by: @skd

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Are you using MelCloud?  If so, you can select the flow and return temperature curves (in Reports, select Hourly Temperatures) and you can see if your actual flow temperatures are achieving the desired set point.

I was never shown how to use MelCloud as the installer said it work differently, due to us keeping our exisiting radiator heating controls- 7 x Drayton Wiser radiator valves and underfloor heating controls- 5  x wired roomstats