Posted by: @downfield

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@editor No and no from me!

For comparison, my EV (Smart #1) requires servicing every 2 years /18k miles in order to preserve the 3 year warranty on the car (Battery is 8 years).

BUT the first service is free, so no costs until the end of year 4.

That is for a much more complex machine that is subject to much higher environmental demands and safety regulations.  So why does Mitsi insist on a service every 12 months to preserve my warranty?  Do they not believe that after making ASHPs for many decades they are likely to fail if the outside casing doesn't get washed?

anything you get free is built into the original price, that is a garenteed rule of life in the West.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Posted by: @editor

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Quick question to everyone. Do you service your heat pump mainly to keep the manufacturer warranty valid or because you genuinely see value in the service itself, and if your warranty comes to an end, will you continue serving your heat pump?

to keep the manufacturer warranty

when your warranty comes to an end, will you continue serving your heat pump - no, but I will do a couple of operations myself (clean filter, clean find, clear out debris in drip tray).

This is sound as you know what you are doing and as long as its not an R290 system, manufactuer states that a non qualified person should not open the casing, this would mean the same rule as the air brick thing, manufacturer said its a rule so is it a rule? still messing with the safety zone of the R290 gas if you open the casing? 

Our RHI repayments are dependent on a hand-on-heart declaration the kit is still in good working order. When our first anniversary came round, we bought a 5-year maintenance package which was, as has been discussed in various other similar threads, quite cheap compared with what others of you have been quoted. We had excellent experience with our installers, so were happy to go with their maintenance, and whenever they do turn up they actually do stuff rather than treat it as a box-ticking exercise. It might be easy money for them but they still give value for it. It also means we have a yearly opportunity to ask various incidental little questions and let them take a look at the heating system as a whole rather than just the heat pump, which is how a niggly problem with the UFH was found and sorted with no hassle and no extra expense.

When the time comes, I suspect we'll get another 5-year package deal. If the relationship were anything less than it is, my answer would probably be different.

In 10 years time we will have the data to show maintained systems V non maintained but I can tell you roughly, all of the new customers we get for maintenance often say their system is not working and they need a maintenance, really this is a breakdown with a maintenance bolted on the back, we attend service and repair where we can.

When we ask most customers say they last had them serviced or in many cases the systems are 2-3 years old, so I would say you would get away with no service for around 3 years and then expect a £500 breakdown and combined service each 3 years, so this is cheaper than the £600 for 3 years servicing but you lose the warranty. This seems to be average and of course you could be lucky and it last 25yrs no servicing and save £5,000 not accounting for inflation. £5000 does not replace the whole system over and over in year 6, 14 and year 23 though as 3 replacements would cost £21,000 not accounting for inflation.

So the way i see it is, yes there is a 90% chance for a 15-25 yr life with servicing, yes there is a 3% chance in 15-25 yr no servicing and just a load of call outs.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Our RHI repayments are dependent on a hand-on-heart declaration the kit is still in good working order. When our first anniversary came round, we bought a 5-year maintenance package which was, as has been discussed in various other similar threads, quite cheap compared with what others of you have been quoted. We had excellent experience with our installers, so were happy to go with their maintenance, and whenever they do turn up they actually do stuff rather than treat it as a box-ticking exercise. It might be easy money for them but they still give value for it. It also means we have a yearly opportunity to ask various incidental little questions and let them take a look at the heating system as a whole rather than just the heat pump, which is how a niggly problem with the UFH was found and sorted with no hassle and no extra expense.

When the time comes, I suspect we'll get another 5-year package deal. If the relationship were anything less than it is, my answer would probably be different.

The Ecodan is amazing kit, I hope they look after you and you get 30yrs out of it, I know some Ecodans that are running for over 15yrs still and going strong these were a couple of the original from when launched in the UK around 2010/2011  

Posted by: @ashp-bobba

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The Ecodan is amazing kit, I hope they look after you and you get 30yrs out of it, I know some Ecodans that are running for over 15yrs still and going strong these were a couple of the original from when launched in the UK around 2010/2011

Well they've done us well (and done well by us) for four years so far, so no reason to doubt they'll continue in the same vein. In all that time, the Ecodan has been very boring and uneventful sitting outside and doing its stuff, which I take to be a very good thing.

@majordennisbloodnok its is a good thing.

They are also great with their warranty, we have worked with them for 20 years inc AC works and our warranty book is around 1% so their kit is very reliable when installed correctly.  

@ashp-bobba 

May I ask please, do you actually perform preventative maintenance as part of the service please. By that I mean checking bearings, lubricants, bushes, refrigerant, seals, electrical terminals and connections, fault codes, system performance  etc and prospectively replacing/ rectifying if necessary? If so, yes it would add genuine value and prevent breakdown. But that’s not what I’ve seen on service checklists and why they are viewed with cynicism by some. Thanks. 

Posted by: @papahuhu

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@ashp-bobba 

May I ask please, do you actually perform preventative maintenance as part of the service please. By that I mean checking bearings, lubricants, bushes, refrigerant, seals, electrical terminals and connections, fault codes, system performance  etc and prospectively replacing/ rectifying if necessary? If so, yes it would add genuine value and prevent breakdown. But that’s not what I’ve seen on service checklists and why they are viewed with cynicism by some. Thanks. 

I was going to give a similar response.  If there were a service checklist (as there is with cars) then it would demonstrate the value of the activity.  It may well be that some installers do have one, and if so that's good and may well change some minds including mine.  Otherwise its all a bit vague!

@papahuhu Hi, Yes we do actually strip the systems right down and check fixings, connections and so on.

I have listed items before on here but just to answer some:

All ASHP have sealed systems and bearings so no oils and grease needed. The most important items to do are service checks around cleaning, flow rates, connections, stabilisation checks and heat transfer checking:

Now the homeowner can do some of this but not all of this, the bits the home owner cannot do can lead to a reduced life expectancy of the kit.

The value for money is the time you get from the engineer that costs £60-70K per year, knowledge of the company with an overhead of 1/2M and support for one of the most vital pieces of kit in your home. 

The only time a service is not worth the money is when is is not done correctly, if you pay £200 you are literally paying for 2.5hrs of the engineers time and use from some of his £5,000 worth of tools on his van. I don't see what cannot be covered as a clean check, calibrate or minor repair within 2.5hrs, if your service company spends less time than this then there is something they are not checking as it takes over 30 mins for the systems to generate full heat exchange on some days.

If what we are all referring to is the 45 min press some buttons and clean the external coil and 1 strainer as a service I agree thats not a service. that's 10% of the service.   

Posted by: @ashp-bobba

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@papahuhu Hi, Yes we do actually strip the systems right down and check fixings, connections and so on.

I have listed items before on here but just to answer some:

All ASHP have sealed systems and bearings so no oils and grease needed. The most important items to do are service checks around cleaning, flow rates, connections, stabilisation checks and heat transfer checking:

Now the homeowner can do some of this but not all of this, the bits the home owner cannot do can lead to a reduced life expectancy of the kit.

The value for money is the time you get from the engineer that costs £60-70K per year, knowledge of the company with an overhead of 1/2M and support for one of the most vital pieces of kit in your home. 

The only time a service is not worth the money is when is is not done correctly, if you pay £200 you are literally paying for 2.5hrs of the engineers time and use from some of his £5,000 worth of tools on his van. I don't see what cannot be covered as a clean check, calibrate or minor repair within 2.5hrs, if your service company spends less time than this then there is something they are not checking as it takes over 30 mins for the systems to generate full heat exchange on some days.

If what we are all referring to is the 45 min press some buttons and clean the external coil and 1 strainer as a service I agree thats not a service. that's 10% of the service.   

Thats a good reply, hence the need for a checklist in cases where you aren't doing the job which, given you have a limited geographical reach, is a substantial number of cases.  Im a bit surprised manufacturers dont provide one (perhaps some do).

@jamespa I'm putting together a piece on this... Mitsubishi and Grant have itemised checklists, and NIBE's is the most thorough. Not sure about the other manufactures because they never replied to me when I requested the info, so one would assume they don't have anything solid to work from.