Posted by: @deltona

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Have you noticed that insulation has been either dropped or downgraded to being not very important?

I can see why they've done it, but the correct way to make a house efficient is to tackle that first.

So people will carry on having ASHPs fitted to unsuitable houses.

 

I also laughed at their announcement that 90 to 95% of people who had had ASHPs fitted were very pleased with them.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Absolutely agree, insulation while allowing for some ventilation is ideally the first step.

There's also a bit of a sales spin in these announcements. 😀

In 2027, when these loans will become available and (if we are optimistic) the financial controls will help tackle the most serious quality issues, perhaps that 90% will be achieved.. 

Posted by: @deltona

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I also laughed at their announcement that 90 to 95% of people who had had ASHPs fitted were very pleased with them.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Do you have any other survey results you could point to that contradict the report's statement, @deltona?

I don't necessarily disagree with your scepticism but I'd rather not dismiss the surveys the report references without some form of objective evidence, no matter how much I might distrust MCS (the author of one of those surveys).

@majordennisbloodnok, I've spent the past month piecing together my own stats and numbers, and they're quite worrying. I don't think the heat pump industry is in a happy place at all.

That's the thing, @editor. I don't disbelieve it at all.

All I do know is that if we start dismissing claims just because we want to or don't like them then our objectivity goes out of the window and we are far less able to argue an alternative case effectively. If, as I suspect, the Government report is using marked amounts of spin there should be verifiable evidence around to counter it and if anyone can point us in that direction then it would be very helpful indeed.

@majordennisbloodnok, that 95% satisfaction figure comes from MCS and is based on their post-installation homeowner survey. The key issue is when and how it’s collected, and I have pointed this out to Ian Rippen. The survey usually lands just days after the install, when the system hasn’t been through a winter, hasn’t been stress-tested and the homeowner’s main concern is whether the house is warm that week (which cold be mid July) and whether the installers were polite and tidied up.

The question itself is along the lines of “were you satisfied with your heat pump installation?”, which most people will answer yes unless something truly spectacular went wrong like the installer leaving rubble everywhere or parking a van on the lawn. At that stage, very few homeowners have any idea whether the system is correctly sized, efficiently commissioned or about to saddle them with eye-watering bills once the temperature drops.

So the 95% figure says far more about short-term customer experience than long-term system performance. Taken at face value, it’s deeply misleading and presenting it as proof that “everything’s fine” is, frankly, a farce. Classic MCS BS

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @deltona

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I also laughed at their announcement that 90 to 95% of people who had had ASHPs fitted were very pleased with them.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Do you have any other survey results you could point to that contradict the report's statement, @deltona?

I don't necessarily disagree with your scepticism but I'd rather not dismiss the surveys the report references without some form of objective evidence, no matter how much I might distrust MCS (the author of one of those surveys).

 

I don't mind you asking at all, everything is open to debate. They sent me a 'customer satisfaction' form to fill in and i'd never even had one installed 😀 

Reviews of this kind are always, always highly inaccurate. People get sent them and fill them in as soon as the product arrives (or in our case job is finished), never 12 months down the line when it's been used and found to be faulty. How many people had the work done in Spring/Summer/Autumn last year and were in no position to report how efficient their ASHP was? Yet they reported it was fantastic because it had cost them nothing or had a £7500 discount. A lot of them would be very different if they compared their energy bills for a year, or even the months of Dec and Jan when it went sub zero for a few days.

They wanted to fit a cheap Chinese unit to my house with only a one year warranty.

A large percentage of the general public cannot be trusted to judge a cake baking competition, let alone an ASHP install. Have you ever read reviews on places such as Trustpilot, Amazon, Tripadvisor etc? They're hilarious, they remind of the sketch Jasper Carrot used to do on Insurance claim forms. People give one star and 5 star ratings for the most stupidest of reasons.

Also you can ask the wrong questions or phrase the questions a certain way to get the answers to read how you want.

I agree entirely about the extent to which surveys can be manipulated by design, @deltona. The best counter, though, is a survey painting a different picture, but with a sensible methodology that’s out in the open for scrutiny. The awkward bit, of course, is laying your hands on such a beast.

Flicking through the channels this evening to discover that Channel 5 had a programme all about Heat Pumps this evening.  I caught the end of it and the bit I saw was generally a positive reporting experience, rather than the tales of woe about poor installations that I'd expected to see.

Did anyone catch the whole thing?

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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I agree entirely about the extent to which surveys can be manipulated by design, @deltona. The best counter, though, is a survey painting a different picture, but with a sensible methodology that’s out in the open for scrutiny. The awkward bit, of course, is laying your hands on such a beast.

I dug through my documents and finally found the questionnaire - to be honest there isn't a hell of a lot to manipulate here 🤣 

I shudder what the 5% you said no went through!

@sheriff-fatman no in the middle of tea and making phone calls but husband watched some and he only winced once with the home owner saying “it’s great I can adjust the temperature of each room from the app”

But he didn’t see all of it 

News Update from DESNZ. They've decided to extend the ECO4 scheme.

Posted by: @transparent

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News Update from DESNZ. They've decided to extend the ECO4 scheme.

 

So Rachel Reeves announces it's closure, then they U turn and open it again?