@heacol, that's a good question. We paid £4,750 for our installation – we've actually shared our full quote here.

It was a three-man team on day 1 (team leader, helper and apprentice), and a two-man team (team leader and helper) on day 2 and part of day 3. Let's just say that they were here for three full days (which they weren't). That's roughly £200/hour.

I wonder that how compares with other installations on this forum.

I don't consider what we paid to be a steal given that the installation was about 75% successful and has taken us three winters to get fully resolved. 

@heacol 

I agree there is a huge disparity between trades'and white collar jobs.  I think a difference might be justified but not as much as there is.  

The problem is, anyone can set up as a heating engineer and claim they are an expert. You may need to employ a specialist for some parts of the work but not much.  It's therefore hard for the average punter to tell the difference between an experienced, competent and qualified heating engineer and a barely competent plumber who talks a good talk. They all get lumped together and so, as you say, in the UK, such hands on trades just aren't valued. That's something the heating industry needs to work on.

Law, medicine and accountancy are highly regulated professions and you know that (usually) the practitioner you get will be experienced,competent and qualified. 

@editor You are mistaken, you consider that the £4750.00 is just labour. It also includes the certification, insurances, administration, management, vans, tools, consumables etc. We calculated that our certification (MCS Compliance and maintenance of it) bill over the last 9 years has averaged just over £2500.00 per job (I was bored during Covid lockdown, so this figure is accurate). That company you employed made little or no money, in fact, they probably made a loss on your job. Did you get a good deal? It has taken 3 years to sort it out, I think not.

We charge £300.00/man day. Once all the direct costs allocated to each man has been taken into account, we make about 15% profit on it. I am not sure if you would do it for that. I have 2 qualified plumber on my books that work as a team. It will take them 4-5 days to retrofit an air source heat pump, change all the radiators and set the system up. It is done properly the first time, which does take time, but we rarely go back other than some software tweaks.

It is assumed that heat pump installation companies make big profits, we do not, we are lucky to make a living, why do you think there are so many that bounce in and out of the industry. It looks good until you get in to it!

Posted by: @heacol

...

We charge £300.00/man day. Once all the direct costs allocated to each man has been taken into account, we make about 15% profit on it. I am not sure if you would do it for that.

...

Speaking as a consumer, I consider that information gold dust. What is charged for labour is not a dirty secret; it's a legitimate cost. If you'd been providing a quote for me and had given that information then, assuming the total figure was within a reasonable ballpark, I'd likely have taken you on.

The company we actually did go with was similarly open, and by demonstrating they weren't trying to control the conversation, they gave us a sense they would be similarly open and straight with us when (inevitably with a retrofit) they found any snags. Crucially, they weren't the cheapest quote we got, so hopefully that demonstrates we were prepared to pay a premium for the installer we felt likely to be the best fit.

Posted by: @editor

What has surprised me is that given the amount of regulations and standards that are in place, there are an awful lot of bodged projects and installations (not just in heat pumps). 

Do the regulations miss the point, are the regulators ineffective, or is it something else?

I'm fairly happy with my heat pump system, as you may know from my other posts, and it seems fairly well-designed and avoids many of the bloopers I've read about, but the installer has never returned to finish the installation (a bit of pipework to insulate, some holes to fill and a door frame to repair) and it's now sprung two small leaks. I've sent one request for them to honour their own warranty but I suspect I'm starting a slow march towards claiming from the guarantee scheme.

@mjr Do the regulations miss the point YES, are the regulators ineffective, YES

I have a quick question that loosely relates to this thread. We have a signed and approved quotation with an installer for a PV system and they didn't deliver one of the inverters that was mentioned on the approved paperwork. Is this a consumer code or a trading standards issue?

We have already had a ruling from the ombudsman in our favour but E.ON are now trying to duck and dive again. We will take this back to ombudsman but wanted to know for my reference which "code" has been violated in the case of not delivering items that have been quoted for and approved?

Posted by: @editor

I have a quick question that loosely relates to this thread. We have a signed and approved quotation with an installer for a PV system and they didn't deliver one of the inverters that was mentioned on the approved paperwork. Is this a consumer code or a trading standards issue?

We have already had a ruling from the ombudsman in our favour but E.ON are now trying to duck and dive again. We will take this back to ombudsman but wanted to know for my reference which "code" has been violated in the case of not delivering items that have been quoted for and approved?

A bit more basic than that, @editor. If what's delivered and (attempted to be) installed isn't what was described in the quote, they're falling foul of the Sale of Goods act and the Consumer Rights act. Forget the codes (which are just guidelines); this is something legally enforceable.

And it's not just a matter of not charging for the inverter that wasn't delivered. If you're left with something that, as a result of the missing inverter, isn't fit for purpose, once again the same legal protection applies.

@editor It is very simple, I would presume they are MCS regestered, If they are then contact RECC or Hies, which ever they are members of. They shoud sort it oit as it is contractual, not opperational.

If not and if you have no joy, it is still very simple, they are in breach of contract, find another installer, get a quote to make good, add your time and any costs you have encured and send them the bill stating that they are in breach of contracract and state that you will hand them over if they do not pay, if they refuse to pay take it to small claims court, you can do it on line and it is very easy.

The consumer code should sort it out but do not hold your breath.

@heacol, I'm not concerned with the actual bodies at this stage. UtiliiesADR (the ombudsman) have been very good, but E.ON are a handful that don't want to comply. 

@majordennisbloodnok, thanks for the light bedtime reading. Time to tuck into the Sale of Goods Act and the Consumer Rights Act.

Posted by: @editor

I am not from this country and I still, after 20 years, cannot get over the general lack of integrity in all sectors of society in this country. There are exceptions, and that is why I am careful who I deal with. I walk away from many jobs as they are not worth it.

We've lived in a few countries and the way business in the UK is conducted is generally ethical, but labour costs are very, very expensive comparatively speaking.

What has surprised me is that given the amount of regulations and standards that are in place, there are an awful lot of bodged projects and installations (not just in heat pumps). 

You can have as many standards and regulations as you like, but they are of little use if no one is enforcing them, and unscrupulous vendors are allowed to ignore them.

@heacol 

Could you please explain why MCS compliance appears to be so expensive, particularly considering how ineffective it appears to be in some cases?