@jamespa It is very emotional week for many of us, I personally have invested maybe 2 years worth of money and assets to raise our game throughout 2024 and 2025, the payback started late this year but hey thats investment for you. This was after being especially cross in March 2021 with the cancellation of the GHG after spending 2019 - 2020 getting re-qualified to do the grants for then the Government to cancel them and then re-open in May 2022 as the BUS scheme. I admit I sulked as I had lost around £60,000 due to the grant ending in 2021 but after my sulking in for a couple of years in 2023 I decided to get back in the game as we were getting so many calls to attend bad installations, so once again we thought we could do better and here we are again. I think it is a good idea that the grants end between 2028 and 2030 but in 2 stages 2028-2029 they reduce to £5000 and then in 2029-2030 they reduce to £3000 and then from 2030 industry can find the difference with more cost effective solutions installing with no grants or a smaller £3000 or something like that subject to government decision, but if its ended like before then its time to pack up for sure.

I am just pleased ASHP is only 20% of our business and we do it like a specialist rather than for volume. For us it's 2 redundancies and about £400,000 up-chain losses to merchants, sub-contractors and suppliers. All of my skilled staff are multi trained anyways so the engineers will stay with our commercial stuff and to on A-W ASHP just do servicing, repairs and the odd installation for people that can afford the full cost.

I do not always say a lot on the forum and I can't count how many times I have written 800 word responses only to delete them and not post as I realise at the end I wrote emotionally rather than practically. I joined to help, I joined to learn and I like these elements but sometimes inside we are sad and hopeful that one day something will give, someone will help and get our industry in an orderly and professional manner we can all be proud of.

@jamespa I've recently completed our MCS survey.  The heat pump was commissioned on 25th June this year, and the first request from MCS to complete the survey was received on 15th October, so approximately 3.5 months after install.  I suspect it's a 3 month contact date, but with dates based upon the payment of the BUS to the installer post-completion, which presumably takes a couple of weeks to filter through.

We'd had a small amount of heating activity prior to the survey being received, but an installation done in mid-April using these timescales would be asked to feed back opinion without potentially experiencing heating activity from their installations (or at least anything noticeable) and certainly without having gone through a heating season and determined the costs/savings of such.

On the wider debate, for what it's worth, we'd fall within the 'middle class' definition of customers as referenced earlier in the thread.  With the BUS grant and the £2k grant from our bank, the net cost of our installation was £2,850, which made it comparable with the equivalent cost of replacing a gas boiler.  The bank grant was a post-installation process, so we had no guarantee that we would have been eligible for it (although on the face of it we could see that we were likely to fulfil all the requirements) but we had essentially committed to a cost to change of £4,850 at the time we committed ourselves, which was still close enough to the cost of a replacement gas boiler.

That, to me, is the essential point on which many people will choose a heat pump over a gas boiler.  If the cost is 'close enough' and there is a good prospect of savings from the new system, then people will take the plunge.  Given the true cost of installations (and having experienced one I can now see why this would be around the £10k mark for a typical job with new pump, cylinder and replacement radiators, plus the cost of labour over several days) the existing BUS grant is just about sufficient to hit that sweet spot for most typical customers.  I'd expected that it might be cut back again to the £5k level in the near future, but the proposed change to low income households, if it comes to fruition, would have been a deal-killer for our household.  Without a meaningful BUS we would undoubtedly be living with a new gas boiler right now.

@transparent As Far as I am aware all of our customers recently have been having inspections or calls, I am sure most of this year as many of them tell me it happened. 

I never thought to ask what was asked, I just always said, "all ok?" and the reply was always "yer I think so?' so we just left it like that. I would alsways end the call with, "if you need us just call and our team will help you, see you in a year for the service or for the 2nd commission which ever was 1st"

@sheriff-fatman to expand on the wider point here, the way I see it is the BUS is an agreement between the home occupier owner and the Government to encourage more of us to transition sooner rather than just stick that boiler in again.

I don't quite see why we think this is giving money to any middle class people? we are just giving to to people, no one is excluded? regardless of who uses it the Government grant surly wants to treat everyone the same and say if you were changing or thinking of changing your boiler anyway, take this sum of money, add it to the £3,000 you were going to spend on the boiler and take the leap, help us reach Net Zero because your small part helps and all chip in together. If someone on low income is changing their boiler they are still spending £3,000 the same as someone who has as spare £3,000.

Now I would think it fair if the Government wanted to come up with a scheme where a low home income got more, like a bigger grant for say, insulation, solar and ASHP all rolled in to 1, I mean that would then help someone in fuel poverty. If they did this and the BUS we would get to Net Zero a bit quicker maybe? 

The BUS is for the initial retro part or cost of making a self build heating circuits ASHP ready only and nothing to really do with the ASHP itself, the ASHP is the boiler and you are paying for this part like you would the boiler (I know they are a bit more expensive but you see my point) Take the BUS away, don't bother upgrading, shove a boiler in as your circuits are boiler compatible, thats the deal, grant = new circuit, no grant = no new circuit. Simple's

Oh I am on a roll....

Forgive me if I don't write or respond to any further posts as I am just about to fly out on holiday and I am having a week off, I will return on the day the budget announces and we will see if we are done for or we are not and we can all go from there.

Best of luck to all my ASHP associates, customers and all.

@ashp-bobba Our ASHP installation was completed and commissioned in mid- February, 2023; we had an MCS follow up ‘phone call a few weeks later. If an installation is made in mid-summer, I wonder if the follow-up to check on the heating should be within weeks - or left until the following winter? Regards, Toodles.

@toodles I would say winter would be a better result but sooner if you had issues or had complained, it would not take much for them to structure it this way I am sure, I suppose they are ticking boxes and doing what they are expected to, hello, you happy, great thanks.

@ashp-bobba, it must be devastating when you've invested a lot of time, effort and money for a potential announcement like this to derail things. Having said that, this is still all very speculative, and the money saved from BUS is pittance when compared to other frivolous expenditures. We need quality installers like you to stay motivated and engaged!

Posted by: @ashp-bobba

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@toodles I would say winter would be a better result but sooner if you had issues or had complained, it would not take much for them to structure it this way I am sure, I suppose they are ticking boxes and doing what they are expected to, hello, you happy, great thanks.

That's exactly what they want to do... get high numbers and say we've amazing to cover the enormous incompetence.  

Keeping the MCS thread going, I've pieced together this article on my interactions with MCS this past week, coupled with @mairia's comms on her case, finished with a soupçon of Ian Rippin's hypocrisy that I was kindly alerted to by @transparent.

https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/mcs-certification-exposed-lack-of-verification-raises-questions/