@editor The route isnt narrow by any means.

They even allow 1 per final circuit. So my house has 2 ringmains and 2 not-used spurs. I can have 800w on each of them! 

@sonosppp, I think we may be talking slightly at cross-purposes. When I said the route was narrow, I meant the type of product covered, rather than necessarily the number of devices that may eventually be allowed. My reading is that the new route applies specifically to compliant plug-in solar and does not extend to plug-in batteries or solar products incorporating storage.

You’re right that the product specification appears to allow one 800VA device per separate household socket circuit. However, it also seems to say that the current G98 position still limits this to one device per household unless and until G98 is amended. So the product rules may be written with multiple devices in mind, but the network-connection rules look as though they remain the practical limit for now.

With limited knowledge, I’d also be cautious about treating an unused spur as a separate final circuit. If it is simply taken from one of the ring mains, I would have thought it remains part of that same circuit rather than creating another 800W allowance. I think @transparent can probably give the most insightful feedback here.

Posted by: @editor

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@sonosppp, I think we may be talking slightly at cross-purposes. When I said the route was narrow, I meant the type of product covered, rather than necessarily the number of devices that may eventually be allowed. My reading is that the new route applies specifically to compliant plug-in solar and does not extend to plug-in batteries or solar products incorporating storage.

You’re right that the product specification appears to allow one 800VA device per separate household socket circuit. However, it also seems to say that the current G98 position still limits this to one device per household unless and until G98 is amended. So the product rules may be written with multiple devices in mind, but the network-connection rules look as though they remain the practical limit for now.

With limited knowledge, I’d also be cautious about treating an unused spur as a separate final circuit. If it is simply taken from one of the ring mains, I would have thought it remains part of that same circuit rather than creating another 800W allowance. I think @transparent can probably give the most insightful feedback here.

Unless @transparent disagrees I would say 'circuit' means 'circuit at CU' ie a separate circuit implies its on a separate breaker.

G98 might be limited to one inverter but G99 isnt.  So you may need to get permission but its extremely unlikely to be refused if each is only 800W.  My DNO says it will auto approve anything up to 5kW total.

I agree. I think a 'circuit' is an electrical supply from a breaker in a Consumer Unit.

Although we usually imagine a circuit as being a power ring, I have a radial supply to (most of) the power outlets in my kitchen.

Because the cable used for that radial is properly sized at 6mm² it would have no trouble at all in having plug-in solar connected to it.

Posted by: @editor

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... just this week alone I've been contacted by two Chinese plug-in manufacturers asking if I'd like to review their new offerings.

Plug-in manufacturers are not yet being considered by the Secretary of State for ESNZ, but it would be a natural extension of the legislation.

A lighting circuit is a separate circuit too right 8)

Posted by: @etchedpixels

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A lighting circuit is a separate circuit too right 8)

Yes, but they aren't fitted with 13A sockets for the very good reason that they are typically wired with cable that has insufficient capacity.

@jamespa Years ago, I used to attend location recording sessions armed with an ‘Adaptaplug’ so that I could connect to the mains socket in a church or a hall etc. with 5 amp or 15 amp sockets; the plug also allowed for a 2 pin (5 amp?) socket in a lighting circuit but I didn’t ever need to resort to those! Regards, Toodles.

It's less than a hundred years ago that people used to routinely plug the vacuum cleaner into the light socket because they only had electric fittings for lights, or in most rooms only for lights.

Posted by: @etchedpixels

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It's less than a hundred years ago that people used to routinely plug the vacuum cleaner into the light socket because they only had electric fittings for lights, or in most rooms only for lights.

 

After a short while that was followed by the 'power wars', where vacuum cleaners were sold on how much power they consumed (more being 'better') not how much suction they generated, leading no doubt to designs with deliberate inefficiencies. This bizarre situation was eventually ended by the EU that legislated for a maximum consumed power.  Of course some would describe what the EU did as unnecessary red tape!

@jamespa Hello! 

The upcoming August 27th specification regulates the maximum feed-in power to the home grid via a wall plug (capped at 800W), rather than disallowing battery storage entirely.

Here is how the Indevolt PowerFlex 3000 operates fully within these rules:

1. Grid Feed-in (800W Cap): When feeding power back into your home circuit via the plug, the system's output is limited to 800W, fully meeting the new plug-in solar standard.

2. Battery Discharge (3000W Power): The 3000W battery output operates through dedicated off-grid sockets directly powering your appliances. Because this energy does not back-feed into the wall grid, it operates as an independent EPS system without violating grid plug-in limits.

3. Compliance: Full battery grid integration also supports standard UK G98 simplified notification routes for peace of mind.

That said, you can safely enjoy both 800W plug-in solar compliance and 3000W battery power with our PowerFlex 3000.

Posted by: @indevolt-tech

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@jamespa Hello! 

The upcoming August 27th specification regulates the maximum feed-in power to the home grid via a wall plug (capped at 800W), rather than disallowing battery storage entirely.

Here is how the Indevolt PowerFlex 3000 operates fully within these rules:

1. Grid Feed-in (800W Cap): When feeding power back into your home circuit via the plug, the system's output is limited to 800W, fully meeting the new plug-in solar standard.

2. Battery Discharge (3000W Power): The 3000W battery output operates through dedicated off-grid sockets directly powering your appliances. Because this energy does not back-feed into the wall grid, it operates as an independent EPS system without violating grid plug-in limits.

3. Compliance: Full battery grid integration also supports standard UK G98 simplified notification routes for peace of mind.

That said, you can safely enjoy both 800W plug-in solar compliance and 3000W battery power with our PowerFlex 3000.

If thats correct its really good news.  The consultation seemed pretty clear that it was restricted to plug in solar only and excluded plug in batteries, but of course its entirely plausible that the actual product spec doesn't exclude the latter.  @transparent your input would be valued!

@indevolt-tech @indevolt-uk for the avoidance of doubt  are you saying that 

a) from Aug 27th, plug in battery + solar is (at least in your interpretation) fully legal in the UK provided that the device meets the relevant specs

b) the powerflex 3000 meets the specs, with the plug output limited to 800W

c)  if the unit is operated plug-in without solar (ie as a battery only) is it still legal and can it still (technically and legally) output 800W to the plug

if so this is brilliant news for the market (but dreadful news for MCS registered installers!).

However I am concerned that your interpretation may be a stretch.  The interim product spec includes the following, please can you comment?

This document applies to only plug-in solar device. It does not apply to other technologies
including but not limited to
• PV systems according to BS 7671 Section 712;
• Building-integrated PV (BIPV);
• Plug-in battery systems;
• Plug-in solar PV devices integrated with battery systems;
• Plug in electricity generation from sources other than solar PV panels

@indevolt-tech, thank you for coming back on this. Having briefly looked at the actual statutory instrument, the final product specification and the government’s response, I think @jamespa’s concern is well founded. I may be missing a separate route you are relying upon, but I can’t currently reconcile your interpretation with the published wording.

The legislation does more than impose an 800W limit. Its definition of a plug-in microgenerator says that it must generate from the direct conversion of sunlight and must not be designed to import electricity from the household supply for storage and later supply, other than the small amount required for control or auxiliary functions. 

The accompanying product specification is probably even more explicit. It says that it applies only to plug-in solar and specifically excludes both “plug-in battery systems” and “plug-in solar PV devices integrated with battery systems”. The government’s consultation response also says the amendment is not intended to permit battery storage systems or wider plug-connected generation equipment, and that battery-integrated products remain outside the current framework. 

That seems difficult to square with the PowerFlex product page, which describes an integrated bidirectional inverter, grid charging when electricity is cheap and feeding energy back when prices are higher. In other words, it appears to be designed to import electricity, store it and later return energy to the household circuit. 

The separate 3,000W off-grid sockets appear to be a different matter. As you say, they directly power connected appliances and do not feed into the household wiring, so I don’t see that as the contentious part. The question is specifically whether the 800W connection through the household wall socket can include energy discharged from the battery.

My limited understanding is also that G98 and the new plug-in-solar exemption deal with different parts of the picture. G98 can apply to suitably type-tested battery storage operating in parallel with the network, but that does not by itself appear to bring a battery product within the new permission to connect generation through an ordinary wall socket.

I think James’s questions are therefore exactly the right ones. Could you clarify whether you are relying upon the new 27 August plug-in-solar framework or a separate G98 installation route?

I would be very pleased if your interpretation proves correct because it would open a significant market. At present, though, limiting the plug output to 800W does not seem sufficient on its own.