Posted by: @morgan

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Havenwise seems to be working here, as it should. (Just over a week in). I am, however, unimpressed with my COP. My once bad COP has actually decreased since handing over control to Havenwise.

Are you comparing like for like with similar outside air temperatures, as we've had another cold spell in that timeframe?  I've had heating CoPs below 3 all week and then yesterday, when the average temperature jumped to 11.4°C from the 3.9°C of the previous day, the reported heating CoP for the day jumped to 3.46.

Just make sure that you're doing a fair comparison by comparing relative performance at equivalent outside temperatures.  This might already be the case, but just wanted to double check.

I don't get why these most recent posts regarding ASHP controls have been moved to this forum...

In a half decent setup when the weather is around 10/11 you should be getting a COP of well into the 4s I would have thought.

@davidalgarve : the challenge with your specific setup is that the learning phase is not completing as it should. The root cause is because the temperature reported by your Mitsubishi thermostat barely changes. It just sits at 20C or 20.5C all the time. Without variance in room temperature, Havenwise can't learn because it can't deduct any relation between heat input and temperature impact. It also has to do with the fact that the Mitsi stat only has 0.5C granularity. That's why I made the suggestion to try out the Shelly. The Shelly sensor reports with 0.1C granularity. My hope is that extra granularity means we'll see a clearer variance in room temperature for your setup.

@morgan Send a message via the Havenwise support and we'll take a look to see if everything is working as it should.

Posted by: @benson

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I don't get why these most recent posts regarding ASHP controls have been moved to this forum...

In a half decent setup when the weather is around 10/11 you should be getting a COP of well into the 4s I would have thought.

Me neither, but it looks like the whole of David's thread query has been moved into the Havenwise thread, rather than it being piecemeal.  Havenwise isn't anything to do with electricity, tariffs, monitoring and providers, but is very specifically related to heat pumps, so the forum choice is bizarre to me, and likely to result in it being largely 'lost' as an information source.

The low CoP is part of my wider heat pump investigation work, as posted elsewhere, but it could be a factor of Havenwise doing harder running, but with long idle times, and it could also be a factor of our house design, including the large glazed conservatory area within it.

Energy usage and overall costs are both well below the expected figures based on the heat loss calculations, which are more important considerations than CoP for me, but it's still interesting to me to want to better understand how Havenwise is choosing to drive the system, relative to a WC 'low and slow' alternative.

@sheriff-fatman I have no idea about moving threads here on the forum.

But on the COP of your heat pump: send a message via the Havenwise support and we'll take a look to see if we can see something odd. 

@hcas Henri, you must acknowledge that when I first made an enquiry re Havenwise the requirement was for a Mitsu wireless controller, which was implemented, although admittedly much delayed (due to the abysmal Mitsubishi service here in Portugal)

Moving on and perhaps I have got it all wrong, but it seems to me that we are not getting much temperature response because you are not "opening the throttle" on the heat pump. It works perfectly OK on DHW when we get the full potential power and 6+kW being drawn, but on room heating, I only see short bursts of 2-3kw which don't have much chance of increasing the room temperature. (It is a big house350 sq m). Additionally, perhaps the insulation in the chosen room and the relatively high daytime temperatures here in the Algarve, limit downward temperature movement.

As agreed I will further increase the target temperature in the hope that this does result in a bigger response from the heat pump.

Apologies if I am way off track here - make allowances for a very old man trying to find an answer

Posted by: @hcas

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@sheriff-fatman I have no idea about moving threads here on the forum.

But on the COP of your heat pump: send a message via the Havenwise support and we'll take a look to see if we can see something odd. 

Hi Henri

We were puzzled by a thread being moved into here, presumably by a mod, but in my case more puzzled by where the Havenwise thread is sitting within the forums.

My comments probably make more sense in the context of this post, which explains more of the background to the CoP query, and whether it's a function of harder running for shorter periods of time.  I don't necessary think it's a problem, and the low CoP scores are being recorded on relatively cold days.  I'll keep monitoring and contact support if I think there's a genuine issue to investigate.

https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/postid/53002/

I am pleased to report that, at last, we are out of the "Learning" phase and we are heating the house up once again. 

We will see how things proceed both on comfort and economy.

I don't know what to think about the relative merits/ demerits of the Mitsu wireless controller and Shelly Gen 3 H &T's but the former cost a lot of time and money and I don't think I can just discard it although Havenwise does reduce its features, i.e. "Set temperature" is meaningless.

Posted by: @hcas

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@morgan Send a message via the Havenwise support and we'll take a look to see if everything is working as it should.

@hcas   where do I find Havenwise Support?  On the website, all I see are FAQs, and on the app, an AI conversation. I've sent a message on the app and asked for it to be passed to a human.

@morgan Perfect, well received.

Posted by: @simonwig

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@hcas bump in case you missed it.

@hcas Just wondering if/where Ideal might be on your development programme as I'd certainly be interested in giving Havenwise a whirl.

I was also wondering re the link to tariffs, are you able to take account of battery storage in terms of scheduling the heat pump operations, if not have you thought of incorporating this?

Thanks

Simon