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Do I add Air Con or MVHR to existing A2W ASHP?

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Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2944
Topic starter   [#3137]

With summers getting hotter each year it seems, should I look at aircon or would MVHR be a better fit? Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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(@old_scientist)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 545
 

Would something like the extremely popular Midea portable split unit work for you:

https://www.midea.com/uk/air-treatment/porta-split-air-conditioner.portasplit

I know a few people who have purchased such devices this year and use them when temperatures get above 30C (or whatever your tolerance levels are). They are pretty effective at cooling down to a much more tolerable 23-24C.

If I were living in a very hot area of the country and starting again from scratch, I think I'd seriously be considering A2A instead of A2W for an all year round solution, assuming the property was suitable for A2A in terms of open plan layout where heat and cooling can circulate throughout the property.


Samsung 12kW gen6 ASHP with 50L volumiser and large radiators. 7.2kWp solar (south facing), Tesla PW3 (13.5kW). Net Zero


   
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JamesPa
(@jamespa)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5357
 

I'm asking the same question.  For me I want something that looks integrated not yet another box to store for most of the year. 

Im hoping that someone (Octopus?) launches a sensibly priced water to water wall mounted heat pump that can replace a couple of radiators using chilled water from my heat pump as the source for cooling or warm water for heating.  My single fancoil, operated above dewpoint, almost does the job but not quite because it isn't quite cold enough and doesn't dehumidify.  There is definitely a market here, it just needs the right product 

They do already exist, designed for offices/apartment blocks eg Panasonic aquarea loop, but at about 3k plus per pop. 


This post was modified 3 weeks ago 2 times by JamesPa

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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bobflux
(@bobflux)
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Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 171
 

If you took a cheap monobloc A2W heat pump and put it indoors, it'd do exactly what you want, except look pretty perhaps...



   
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JamesPa
(@jamespa)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5357
 

Posted by: @bobflux

If you took a cheap monobloc A2W heat pump and put it indoors, it'd do exactly what you want, except look pretty perhaps...

I guess that running it 'backwards' (water to air) it would. It's an interesting thought!

Octopus posted an experiment with one of the many 400£ Aircon units available, where they added a heat exchanger linked to the radiator system and thus ultimately to an external 'cosy' in lieu of the pipe through the window.

Looking pretty matters though in a domestic environment.  I want it to remain in place all year so I don't have to store it.  This is largely a (re)packaging exercise!

 


This post was modified 3 weeks ago 4 times by JamesPa

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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(@old_scientist)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 545
 

Samsung (and another OEM) recently announced ASHPs that can do both A2A (for heating and cooling) and A2W for (heating and DHW) in one outdoor unit. It can even do heat recovery from cooling mode in summer, and pump that recovered heat into the DHW cylinder.

https://samsung-climatesolutions.com/gb/b2c/products/ehs/quint/outdoor.html

That looks like the perfect solution for both heating and cooling, and you no longer have to choose between A2A or A2W - you can have both in one unit.


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Old_Scientist

Samsung 12kW gen6 ASHP with 50L volumiser and large radiators. 7.2kWp solar (south facing), Tesla PW3 (13.5kW). Net Zero


   
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JamesPa
(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5357
 

Posted by: @old_scientist

It can even do heat recovery from cooling mode in summer, and pump that recovered heat into the DHW cylinder.

I think I saw a diagram for an exhaust air dhw tank with movable baffles to do the same.  This triggers thinking about it holistically as an energy management problem.  In winter it's clear that houses have an energy deficit.  In summer not so, unfortunately the energy is in the wrong place at the wrong time.  

 


This post was modified 3 weeks ago 3 times by JamesPa

4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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Batpred
(@batpred)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1132
 

to delete (repeat)


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Batpred

8kW Solis S6-EH1P8K-L-PLUS hybrid inverter; G99: 8kW export; 16kWh Seplos Fogstar battery; Ohme Home Pro EV charger; Vaillant Arotherm Pro 7kW; 100Amp head, HA lab on mini PC


   
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Batpred
(@batpred)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1132
 

Eventually we managed to get our Arotherm to cool, even if a bit too late to get much data on how effective it can be.

With the built-in dew point function, I cannot see why it would not be usable. 


8kW Solis S6-EH1P8K-L-PLUS hybrid inverter; G99: 8kW export; 16kWh Seplos Fogstar battery; Ohme Home Pro EV charger; Vaillant Arotherm Pro 7kW; 100Amp head, HA lab on mini PC


   
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(@lizzie)
Active Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 15
 

Posted by: @toodles

With summers getting hotter each year it seems, should I look at aircon or would MVHR be a better fit? Regards, Toodles.

Hi Toodles, our experience of MVHR is that on cold winter days it draws in cold air, so we switch it off except when showering and cooking. In hot summer weather it draws in hot air and, being rural, country smells, so we switch it off except when showering and cooking. Some MVHR systems come with heaters to warm the air in cold weather but that, of course, is expensive to run. As you are looking for effective cooling some form of air-conditioning looks a better option. I am not an expert, just speaking from experience. 🙂

 



   
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(@lizzie)
Active Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 15
 

Posted by: @toodles

With summers getting hotter each year it seems, should I look at aircon or would MVHR be a better fit? Regards, Toodles.

Sorry, posted same message twice in my impatience!


This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Lizzie

   
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Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2944
Topic starter  

@lizzie Thank you, very interesting and useful information! Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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