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Samsung Gen7 setup

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by IanPC 2 months ago
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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
03/11/2024 10:44 am  

@robs Wow. That’s quite a difference!


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 03/11/2024 6:05 pm  

@robs Oops. Thanks for that. I've run it with a more accurate pipe sizing. Initially over 5m of pipe it looks like 0.054 bar for the corrugated and 0.013 bar for 28mm copper. So yes 4 times the pressure drop. I'll do a bit of measuring and see what Samsung have to say.



   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 05/11/2024 6:47 pm  

Measured pipe runs etc. The length of the Kaiflex pipe is 17.256m. Pressure drop at a flow rate of 15lpm is 0.066bar. Flow and return - so the pressure drop is 0.132 bar. If it was 28mm copper it would be 0.05bar. However estimating the length of the heating pipes (22mm and 15mm) the pressur drop is about 1.2 bar. At higher flow rates it gets a lot worse. Yes 28mm copper would be better however it's the rest of the heating circuit that's critical.

Delta T. Now it's between 4 and 5 at a flow temperature of 28 degrees C. The flow rate has dropped from 19 lpm to 15 lpm. How - I started trying to balance the rads. You get into a doom loop of adjust one and the others change. In the end I just set 9 of the 11 to '90 degrees on' from shut i.e. open the Lock Shield by a quater turn from shut. Most of the L/S are 'low authority' - half a turn and there are fully open. Will try again when it gets colder (and when I've got the hang of the IR camera).

Finally - anyone know what 'Eco Level4/5' is on the control panel?



   
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 Mike H
(@mike-h)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 200
05/11/2024 9:27 pm  

Posted by: @raiph
↑

Finally - anyone know what 'Eco Level4/5' is on the control panel?

No, but I have often wondered about it.



   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 08/11/2024 11:53 am  

@mike-h Got this reply from Samsung support:

The Eco level is there is an indication as to how the system is running at that given time, from Eco 1 where the immersion is operating only to Eco 5 where you have solar operating only. You should normally see this around the 3- 4 mark.

I have seen 2/5 - clear as mud.



   
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 Mike H
(@mike-h)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 200
08/11/2024 6:26 pm  

@raiph Thanks for that. Actually that makes more sense now. I presume 2/5 is when the compressor is at 100% and 3 or 4 will be at lower %.



   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 11/11/2024 11:41 am  

HavenWise now have control of my system. Will report when I have more data (or any ...).



   
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JamesPa
 JamesPa
(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4714
11/11/2024 11:59 am  

@raiph Looking forward to hearing what you experience.  My heat pump should (hopefully, after a 2 year battle with my planning authority) be in within the next month or two and Havenwise was the direction I was thinking of going.


4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 16/11/2024 6:16 pm  

@jamespa Ok. Can someone settle an argument I've been having with myself. If I balance the radiators to get a better Delta T then the flow rate will decrease. Does this mean that the pump pressure will increase? Is a higher flow rate better as far as efficiency goes?

As for HavenWise - half way through me trying to balance the rads they change the Water Outlet temperature. Confused me. I've tried two methods - dual channel thermostats with K thermocouples and an infrared camera attachment on my phone. For the thermocouples - use a bit of tape to fix them to the front panel of the rads - top left/bottom right. Don't use the pipework. Switch off the lockshield valve and wait for it to cool down. When it is cold slowly open the L/S 15 degrees at a time until the flow face of the panel reaches the Water outlet temperature. Then check the return. Wait for 10 - 15mins and adjust until you get near to a Delta T of 5. As for the Infrared camera - it does match the thermocouple readings and also gives an indication of the heat flow across the rad. Be realistic Delta T or 4 to 6 should be OK.

Does anyone know the power consumption of a Samsung at various Water Outlet temperatures and flow rates. Saturday night 3 degrees outside and HavenWise set the WO temperaure to 27.5. 'Instantaneous power' was 900W. Bit high? The house didn't make it past 19 degrees.

I'll log the heating flow and return temperatures over a couple of days to try and get an idea what the HP is doing and also how HavenWise are controlling it.

 



   
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JamesPa
 JamesPa
(@jamespa)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 4714
17/11/2024 1:28 pm  

Posted by: @raiph
↑

. If I balance the radiators to get a better Delta T then the flow rate will decrease. Does this mean that the pump pressure will increase? Is a higher flow rate better as far as efficiency goes?

I'm not sure what you mean by better.  As a general principle you should be fully opening the valve on the radiator furthest away/last to heat up and then adjusting others down.  You don't want to restrict the flow rate more than you need to to get equal delta t across all radiators (or if you are balancing for room temperature which is arguably better but more difficult, equal room temperature).  However you do this at least one radiator valve should be fully open when balanced.  If the resulting flow rate is too high then turn the pump down a notch or better still allow the Samsung itself to control it, which it can assuming this is a regular set up.  It's not so much higher flow rate that is better, you need sufficient to carry the heat to the radiators and any more is wasteful.  If you balance the rads with at least one valve fully open when balanced, that's the best you can do.  

@toodles has, I believe, a balancing 'script', perhaps he cam post it again.

Probably best to balance before invoking havenwise.  I don't know if you can disconnect them temporarily 

 


4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2711
17/11/2024 1:45 pm  

@jamespa Here is the link to my guide:

https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/how-to-balance-radiators-the-role-of-the-lockshield-valve

Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Raiph
(@raiph)
Eminent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 28
Topic starter 17/11/2024 6:01 pm  

Are you all saying that the Delta T across the radiators is irrelevant?



   
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