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High air source heat pump running costs – Vaillant AroTherm Plus

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
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 Colin
(@colin)
Trusted Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 56
05/10/2022 5:04 pm  

@derek-m I'm afraid I can't answer why that is, other than the builder who fitted the UFH/Raditors and all the plumbing was different from the company who did they ASHP.



   
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 webcmg
(@webcmg)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 114
Topic starter 05/10/2022 6:33 pm  

@colin are you tempted to replace the glycol and see what difference it makes to the system performance and efficiency? Is there any data that indicates the potential differential in efficiency?



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
05/10/2022 8:03 pm  
Posted by: @colin

@derek-m I'm afraid I can't answer why that is, other than the builder who fitted the UFH/Raditors and all the plumbing was different from the company who did they ASHP.

Hi Colin,

Are you certain that you actually have dump valves installed? If so, where will they actually dump the water and glycol mixture should they operate?

If my understanding is correct, having antifreeze included will not stop the dump valves from operating under the specified conditions.



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
05/10/2022 8:11 pm  
Posted by: @webcmg

@colin are you tempted to replace the glycol and see what difference it makes to the system performance and efficiency? Is there any data that indicates the potential differential in efficiency?

It should be possible to roughly calculate the effect if you know the concentration of glycol.

Glycol has a lower specific heat capacity than water, so can transport a smaller quantity of heat energy than a similar volume of water. The greater the concentration of glycol, the lower the quantity of heat energy that will be transported.



   
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 Kev M
(@kev-m)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1276
05/10/2022 8:28 pm  
Posted by: @derek-m
Posted by: @webcmg

@colin are you tempted to replace the glycol and see what difference it makes to the system performance and efficiency? Is there any data that indicates the potential differential in efficiency?

It should be possible to roughly calculate the effect if you know the concentration of glycol.

Glycol has a lower specific heat capacity than water, so can transport a smaller quantity of heat energy than a similar volume of water. The greater the concentration of glycol, the lower the quantity of heat energy that will be transported.

I haven't calculated it but I've read it's about a 5% loss for a typical ASHP treated with a glycol based inhibitor vs pure water. That will add up but won't make a noticeable difference to your COP. 

One point to note is that the specialist heat pump glycol solutions also have corrosion and biological inhibitors; they're not just anti-freeze.  Unless it's done on the cheap using car anti-freeze of course. But nobody would do that. Would they...?



   
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 webcmg
(@webcmg)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 114
Topic starter 14/10/2022 10:54 am  

Hi all, my smart meter connectivity issues now appear to have been resolved and I can see consumption at 30 minute intervals via the Bright app.  Does anyone know if it is possible to view this data in Home Assistant?  Many thanks.



   
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 Colin
(@colin)
Trusted Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 56
14/10/2022 11:40 am  

@webcmg Hi webcmg, it is. Here's the integration I used. 

https://github.com/HandyHat/ha-hildebrandglow-dcc

 



   
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 webcmg
(@webcmg)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 114
Topic starter 14/10/2022 1:44 pm  

@colin thank you!



   
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 webcmg
(@webcmg)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 114
Topic starter 14/10/2022 2:59 pm  

@colin what card are you using to display the usage?



   
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 Colin
(@colin)
Trusted Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 56
14/10/2022 3:11 pm  

@webcmg Hi, I use the SMETS2 frient Electricity Meter Interface which uses Zigbee and quite easy to set up with ZHA.  

https://www.amazon.co.uk/20207000-Electricity-Consumption-Battery-Powered-SmartThings/dp/B08WXT6HHJ

I also managed to get my Geo Trio3 IHD plus wifi module working with HA but that was more challenging with having to edit YAML files and quite tricky.

Both give live meter readings so I can guess what the Heat Pump is up to.

 



   
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 Yogabob
(@yogabob)
Active Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 10
21/10/2022 11:45 am  

@webcmg Hello. I know this is an old thread, but I have just had Vaillant ASHP fitted, and am working my way round how to get the best out of it. The fitters said 'Leave the controls alone!'. Which I have, of course, ignored totally!. I have messed up once or twice, but factory reset is always there as a fall back! Whatever you do, do not leave the hot water on all the time. I have set mine to run for a couple of hours - midnight till 2 am - Tues and Weds, plus Sat and Sun. Loads of hot water, much lower power consumption.



   
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 webcmg
(@webcmg)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 114
Topic starter 21/10/2022 12:10 pm  

@yogabob this is still very much active thread as our developers continue to try to resolve the performance and efficiency issues. Our DHW heats up for an hour each night, it easily hits the 48 deg within the hour and averages between 2kwh and 3kwh per night at this time of year. Not sure I understand why you only heat it on two consecutive nights twice a week?



   
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