@majordennisbloodnok I suppose in a way, the AI route is not a million bytes away from smart controls really. I get slight twinges about the installer having the control - and what happens if their business goes belly-up I wonder. Toodles.

@majordennisbloodnok I seem to be having probs today with the system accepting my postings then losing them! I did reply to the one above Major, but I think I will wait to see if it turns up later. Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok I suppose in a way, the AI route is not a million bytes away from smart controls really. I get slight twinges about the installer having the control - and what happens if their business goes belly-up I wonder. Toodles.

Quite right on all counts. Personally I hate the AI route altogether, not least of all because it would have to produce some big carbon savings for the heat pumps in order to offset the carbon footprint of the power needed to run the AI servers in the first place. Nonetheless, it is an alternative and one that no doubt some people will take up.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok I suppose in a way, the AI route is not a million bytes away from smart controls really. I get slight twinges about the installer having the control - and what happens if their business goes belly-up I wonder. Toodles.

Quite right on all counts. Personally I hate the AI route altogether, not least of all because it would have to produce some big carbon savings for the heat pumps in order to offset the carbon footprint of the power needed to run the AI servers in the first place. Nonetheless, it is an alternative and one that no doubt some people will take up.

 

I think a valid question is - what savings could be achieved with just a bit of fixed profiling of setbacks based on energy price, and how do they compare with what the various monitoring companies are offering.  Of course the monitoring companies aren't going to tell you because it means you don't need their kit.  However electricity prices are, in general terms, fairly predictable so I suspect its not so bad just to employ a fixed profile.  But its hassle to work it out and most wont bother or indeed have the skills, so the monitors definitely have a market. 

My suspicion is that Octopus (and others) will eventually bundle monitoring/control with Agile or Cosy, and offer some sort of guarantee.   Thats the obvious thing for them to do.  Any of the companies on the video could be bought by octopus (or another electricity retailer) and their technology, or a variant of it, integrated into the retailers systems.   One or more of them may also be working on it independently.  As to whether you wish to submit to this, that's a personal choice (currently).

Octopus are already offering to bundle some smart control of certain heat pumps along with their heat pump tariffs, so I don’t doubt the direction. However, they still can’t integrate everything else in someone’s smart home so there’s little option but for them to leave control and monitoring optional. Doesn’t stop them being persuasive, though…

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Octopus are already offering to bundle some smart control of certain heat pumps along with their heat pump tariffs, so I don’t doubt the direction. However, they still can’t integrate everything else in someone’s smart home so there’s little option but for them to leave control and monitoring optional. Doesn’t stop them being persuasive, though…

Indeed.  But with your car and heat pump they basically have control of your energy consumption and can take care of minimising cost to the consumer, balancing the grid, and profit on their energy business (probably in reverse order of precedence).

Posted by: @jamespa

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they basically have control of your energy consumption

Am I the only one that sees an enormous red flag in that statement? 

Posted by: @cathoderay

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Posted by: @jamespa

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they basically have control of your energy consumption

Am I the only one that sees an enormous red flag in that statement? 

No, I do too.  Just stating the fact!

That said many will give up control and privacy in return for low price and simplicity.  Most people these days carry mobile phones, which track your every movement, but they are happy to do so in return for a free OS and all the convenience associated with someone in California knowing where you are, what you are doing and who you are doing it with.

@cathoderay, I also agree with what @jamespa has said. You’re far from alone in seeing red flags.

What’s even more intriguing is that the data they’re likely to collect may well not be “personally identifiable information”, meaning GDPR rules would not necessarily have to apply, and so meaning the data could be used and passed on far more freely. Since it’s already anonymised, that’s not necessarily a problem but, as @lucia will attest, it at least muddies the waters.

Posted by: @jamespa

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That said many will give up control and privacy in return for low price and simplicity.

It seems to me many have drifted into this, without really giving it a second thought. Not all, though, I haven't (so far as I know) because I don't have a smart phone, and I find I can avail myself of all of the alleged convenience of a smart phone with a bit of planning. Nor do I really need a weather forecast update every 30 minutes telling me there is a 50% chance of light rain at 1500 hours. West 4 veering north west 5 later from the midday inshore waters forecast is all I need. I can still read a map if I need to get somewhere I don't know. Amazingly, my credit card still works, and I managed to avoid getting a black one that has a carbon emission spending limit, a dystopian gimmick that has since mercifully been discontinued, though its dark shadow lives on in Natwest's spending app. All these nefarious activities form part of the new order of surveillance capitalism.

The infamous can-o-worms (mis-)quote of Franklin springs to mind: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." 

@majordennisbloodnok After recent ASHP installation I've gone with a trial with Havenwise. Parameters are that I set comfort temperatures and tariff that I want and they take care of the rest to minimise energy costs. (I could even leave them to decide tariff but not yet).

I also want to minimise carbon but that's for Octopus to inform the system through their time of use price signals. If the system has a fault, then I'd go back to the installer but they are good at installing not continuously monitoring and optimising the system. AI can do that so I outsource running the system to Havenwise. We'll see how it goes this winter. I will also keep an eye on system cycling to maximize ASHP lifetime but expect service person would do this when they do routine check - or Havenwise may do

I've had a great level of communication from Havenwise but unlikely they can do this as they build critical mass so likely this approach will eventually reflect what you get from the energy companies: you switch to them and they provide the hands off service.

@martin53 thanks for sharing, and looking forward to hearing your updates.