Posted by: @batpred

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Posted by: @l8again

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I was told that installer doesn’t get to see the system design temperature until commissioning is complete. I can live with that given the minimum guaranteed SCOP. My minimum SCOP is 4 and earlier this year my system was happily chugging along at a heating curve level of 0.2.

That was similar with us (on the design temperature), we noticed that there was no design temperature shown in the earlier documentation. We are happy with our guaranteed SCOP (including hot water) of 3.75. 
The commissioning survey did show a design temperature. But to be honest, since not all the rad upgrades were registered (we had our own plumber doing some of them), I expect that it was over estimated. 
But reading the posts here, i am being picky. The whole process was pretty smooth, plenty of post commissioning docs with photos etc.  Given how much care our Heat Geek took to install original Vaillant wall brackets (suitable for external insulation - a very elegant finish), I doubt MCS could find any gap anywhere. HG handle all the overheads very efficiently.. 

Of course our pump has only done hot water and cooling so far.. 

My summary, highlighting the oddities. 

I received a very interesting email from a homeowner today which raises another question about going through Heat Geek’s platform versus approaching an installer directly. I’m keeping the homeowner and the installer anonymous, and I’ve rounded the figures slightly up and down to protect their identity, but the amounts remain very close to those in the email.

The homeowner is looking to replace an old heating system with a heat pump and a new radiator system, and Heat Geek had pointed them towards an installer. Going through the platform produced an online estimate of around £7,200, with a survey fee of roughly £300 and performance guarantees, whereas approaching that same business directly through their website produced a much more detailed estimate of approximately £11,800, with a survey fee closer to £400. Neither route has yet involved a visit to the property, so these are preliminary estimates, but we’re still talking about nearly £5,000 between two routes to the same installer for the same house.

My immediate suspicion is that the lower figure reflects a ZeroDisrupt ‘package’, while the installer’s direct estimate allows for a more extensive retrofit.

And that is where I find the situation rather bonkers. If the installer considers the more extensive work necessary when approached directly, could that same installer then arrive to deliver a reduced specification because the customer booked through the platform? If the additional work is optional rather than necessary, why isn’t the homeowner being shown what it would achieve and given the choice? The house hasn’t changed because the enquiry arrived through a different website, and the professional judgement about what it needs shouldn’t change either.

A cheaper installation isn’t automatically a worse one, and a higher price doesn’t prove that somebody is doing the job “properly”, but the distinction between essential work and optional improvements should be crystal clear. There’s a perfectly sensible conversation to be had about spending more upfront for better performance, less noise or a preferred equipment location; there’s a much less reassuring conversation where the homeowner cannot establish whether the cheaper offer includes everything needed to do the job in the first place.

What makes this particularly telling is that the homeowner actually trusts the higher estimate more because of the detail it contains. They aren’t demanding the cheapest possible installation or accusing anyone of overcharging… they’re simply trying to understand what they would receive.

Has anyone here obtained prices through both routes and had the difference properly explained? Same house, same prospective installer, nearly £5,000 apart… 

@editor I suspect that the Heat Geek online quote is a marketing hook only.

When I first contacted HG their on line quote was based on an EPC rating, house age plus details of number of bedrooms.  They quoted me a 10kW Vaillant, 250L tank and up to 3 radiator changes, and I presume the labour and additional gubbins such as expansion vessel, volumiser, piping and fittings, controller etc.  The quote was £8.5k.  The installer came around and said we’d only need a 7kW Vaillant but all 16 rads would need changing (which I knew). His quote was £18.5k.  It’s worth mentioning that it isn’t/wasn’t a complicated install - the airing cupboard was big enough for everything with room for shelving, pipe run was very straightforward, radiators all replaced in-situ so no re-piping.  

It struck me that the changes from the online quote to the actual quote were a smaller heat pump, an additional 13 radiators and, probably, 10m longer pipe run from the external unit.  I don’t know for sure of course, but I thought that the extra copper wouldn’t have been much more than the price difference between a 7kW and 10kW Vaillant so the extra £10k was being taken up with 13 new radiators.  The install duration was quoted at 4-5 days at £9k labour.

I didn’t go with HG for obvious reasons - £26.5k before grant to upgrade a heating system without complex problems is clearly nonsense - but I felt that the initial quote was totally irrelevant.  I tried to get to the bottom of the difference but no one was forthcoming, just a generic “things can change once the survey is done”.  I complained and got my survey fee back.

So the online price is just a hook in my view and in your example, it’s probable the installer was being more realistic.

I struggled with this problem as well. An independent told me that I would need a new cylinder and a buffer tank as my property has 10mm PLEX piping. The quoted priced reflected what was proposed.

Hest Geek Zero Disrupt can back with continuing to use existing cylinder and no buffer tank. Yes, I decided to have 8 radiators moved (including 5 new ones) and the total cost to me was £3000 with a guaranteed minimum combined efficiency of 400%. (I was told not to use SCOP as SCOP is related to space heating only).

Chatting to my installation, they told me that for a bespoke installation all pipes under floors would be changed and fully lagged and they wouldn’t use Primary Pro installation. Yes, the installer concerned has one installation on OpenMonitor with a SCOP of 5.3.

As far as my installation is concerned, the system is totally silent. My house is at 22C and the heat pump has consumer 4kWh of electricity so far today (hot water and heating) with an overnight OAT of 6C either a combined efficient of 501%.

Are some installers taking customers for fools - my view is they are. In their defence, the installer who wanted to fit a buffer tank said he had no complaints from his customers about a cold house.

Posted by: @l8again

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Are some installers taking customers for fools - my view is they are. In their defence, the installer who wanted to fit a buffer tank said he had no complaints from his customers about a cold house.

one thing i learnt from reading people’s comments and experiences here is that tanks that have additional pumps are extra things that can fail. And when i had installers trying to convince me of the need for a buffer, it was obvious most did not even know the difference from a volumiser. And the fact that the goal of a volumiser is to reduce cycling.. plus these things always add to the cost, which usually means the price is higher.