Posted by: @crimson

↑

Other half informed me exact changes by engineer:

• flow temp max up to 45
• UFH manifold - speed 3 (no idea why!!)
• connected loose wire

So now of course installer will have a get out of jail free stating manufacturer made changes.

They cant get away with this argument, all three changes are easily reversible if the installer thinks the wrong thing was done!

Putting the flow temp up should make a difference (at the expense of efficiency) and is a good 'test' move IMHO. If it works it proves that there is no fundamental problem, and leads directly to a discussion about efficiency and how removing the LLH would maintain both house temperature and efficiency.

Is there any possibility that the reason its not currently heating is just air in the system/no system pressure?  Bleeding/topping up are things that householders are going to do/have to do and, unless they are reckless, its not reasonable to void warranty if householders carry out this basic piece or ongoing maintenance, particularly just after a system has been filled and is thus quite possibly full of dissolved air  (you know it is, you can hear gurgling).

Posted by: @grantmethestrength

↑

@crimson mate you have proper been through the wars, I really hope you get some resolution, and soon.

thanks. Just heard a big clunk.

secondary pump is now off.

P1 error on the Grant panel

Yup that will be your lack of pressure

But why did pressure plummet?

on Monday gauge didn't read 0. But flow setter did.

so much for the hydraulic separation of the LLH…

Pressure will be same either side of llh.  Llh gives some separation of flows but it's the same body of water at same pressure.  

Assuming you mean static pressure, ie measured when water pumps are off, it could plummet because of

• Dissolved air coming out of solution (air is more compressible than water)
• Dissolved air coming out of solution and then being vented through the auto bleed.
• A leak
• A faulty expansion vessel

The last is the least likely, but not impossible.   There may be other reasons but these are the ones that come to mind.

The first recourse sofaik is simply to top it up via the filling loop and manually bleed any points where air is obviously collecting. That's certainly what I have been doing with my central heating for the past 30 years!

Flow setter could possibly read zero without pressure being zero if the air in the llh goes below the port which feeds the flow setter.  Again there may be other reasons eg pump has run dry because of air in system or airlock.  

Thanks for ckarifying.

the installers seem to have a reprieve as manufacturer intervention/parts have failed.

however none of this happened before the 50L LLH install, so seems very odd..

Posted by: @crimson

↑

Thanks for ckarifying.

 

the installers seem to have a reprieve as manufacturer intervention/parts have failed.

 

however none of this happened before the 50L LLH install, so seems very odd..

50l LLH install would have introduced a shedload more air, no surprise TBH, takes time to come out of solution too so no guarantee it would manifest on the day.

Unless they have plumbed the 50l LLH wrongly it is really unlikely to have made things worse.  Obviously still not as good as no LLH though.

Latest situation:
Installer attended, couldn't get it working, states the Compressor is at fault now/other parts.

He informed Grant.

So Grant calls, says request for senior engineer but not available until 24th.  To which I said you must be kidding, household with no heat or hot water, 2 young children.  They are getting an engineer in on Tuesday.  The same who came yesterday (and subsequently later last night a P1 fail…).  Assured me he'd get it working, I said I have zero confidence in that seeing as result last night.  Builder and installer will attend Tuesday.  I pushed Grant for Monday but fully booked, said where's the priority here, young children etc.  They're requesting engineer attend Monday if any opportunity.  They don't do weekend visits.

So now I have no hope in not just my installer, but the manufacturer.  This system doesn't seem to have adequate fail safes.

The builder has been on to Grant saying what's going on, this family may need to check into a hotel seeing as temps are going to drop etc, to see if can get any movement, but none, it's Tuesday.  However has been told whenever an engineer from Grant attends a senior manager will also to authorise installation of a replacement unit.

Builder instructed installer to buy an entire new unit to have it ready on site Tuesday, so that if Grant say unit needs replacing, it's there, rather than wait and wait.

A huge mess I'm in.

Could have all been avoided with not having the LLH in the first place, it's beyond a joke.

I now have to wait until a working unit is in, and 'set up' for 7 days of running to confirm wether installer remains on or off the project.

This is glacial progress and in fact in reverse, was frustrated not quite 20C temps, wanted 21C temps.  No got rooms dropping to below 18C.

I've indicated that the lack of real flow monitoring on the ASHP, gives me more reasoning to insist the new smart panel is installed, as I believe that adds flow sensors.

I’ve purchased another type of temperature monitor as I wanted to reconfirm that the Heatmiser panels are showing temps that read too high.

Looking at:

• probe 1: 16.8C
• probe 2: 16.3c
• Heatmiser (temp provided by installer to get ‘accurate’ temp of actual room): 18.3C

The Heatmiser panel is showing up to 2C higher than the other 2!

This to me says they need calibrating, and cannot be relied upon for determining that the system gets rooms to a temp of 21C.

The 2 probes I have bought have an accuracy if +/-1C, no idea how the Heatmiser can show 2C higher. Indicates to me as reading up suggests their power source gives them a higher temp.

The installer should have calibrated these…or dare I say has done so but favourably to them…

@crimson This youtube might be of help

https://youtube.com/shorts/9hnK0kdiEqw?si=_ERfW3FqvBFuiXq9

The narrator's voice sounds kind of familiar 😂

Posted by: @iaack

↑

@crimson This youtube might be of help

https://youtube.com/shorts/9hnK0kdiEqw?si=_ERfW3FqvBFuiXq9

The narrator's voice sounds kind of familiar 😂

Lol. I know they CAN be calibrated, it’s just unclear why the installer chose not to or completely acts like you can’t.

Can’t believe I’m stuck with a contractor builder chose even after asking removal and it’s all down to letting them prove they can’t do it.

And the saga continues…

So today a Senior Grant Engineer attended site…

Context:

Situation at start of day, Grant ASHP is in P1 error mode.  No heating, no hot water.

Day 8 of no heating/no hot water (other than immerision).

Rooms down to sub 14C

What happens:

Grant engineer examines everything - the strainer (installer unaware there was one - like he was unaware there were 2 defrost/dump valves…) - is filled with crap.

Grant engineer and installer clean that up.  ASHP turned on - we have flow.

I proceed to basically interview the Grant engineer with builder listening in - asking binary questions to get a steer on what the situation is so far with the installers - using only facts / no opinions.

It would seem some key mistakes made and some communications on what is considered warranty or not (2 port wouldn't break warranty) - are confirmed.

I won't share everything here as want to keep some matters off here as wouldn't be suitable.

However…

…the original reason the Grant engineer was supposed to attend for was - to confirm per the installers observations, that the ASHP was short cycling, not getting to temp and showing it kept defrosting.  Thought being refrigerant leak.

Just as engineer goes to leave, he witnesses the defrost fail to work properly - partial frosting of side of unit indicates gas issue…

That's then confirmed.

So now have a situation of where there have clearly been installer errors, there's a fault with the unit.

Replacement unit

A replacement unit will arrive tomorrow and installer will remove current and install new.

However, far as I can tell the performance of this unit as is, wasn't like this prior to the LLH upgrade (which I didn't want anyway).

I'll report back tomorrow how this goes.

Heatmiser panels:

A big win in this was, the Grant engineer confirmed Heatmiser panels aren't that accurate - they need calibrating - in front of the installer (who said he was unaware that they COULD be calibrated…).

To illustrate it to the builder, when the Grant engineer was walking around with a thermal imaging camera, I asked him to point at the Heatmiser panel - it shows it generates heat.

So now these panels, once new ASHP is up and running, will be calibrated.

I have now got a Testo Wireless Thermometer with Air Probe (915i) that's rated +/- 0.2C.

I'll be confirming the panels are correct (the cheap Amazon probes btw aren't that far off!!!).

Plan:

Plan is installer gets it up and running and proves that his system can provide 21C (calibrated panels!!) with default Grant W/C - but max flow set to 40C - per the system design.

…I've little confidence that will happen. If it's proven it won't - we can finally have the specialist on site to do the proposed works:

• Convert 50L LLH to 2 port volumiser (cap off top 2 ports, bridge flow from ASHP to pipe originally top left of LLH = direct flow from ASHP to heating zone 2 port valves)
• Remove the "secondary/additional/plant room" pump - (I've heard 3 different terms for it today……)
• Change appropriate settings
• Replace manual flow setter with digital one - that's blacked out, Grant engineer said it's due to lack of biocide in system…
• Replace downstairs 2 port valve - that's odd one out.  Builder now agrees with me, this is Honeywell valve - doesn't have a light on it, unlike the 2 Grant ones.  We stood around waiting for rads to warm up not realising panel wasn't pressed on
• Replace the Grant panel with the new smart one = remote monitoring and less of my time reporting what's going on.