@jet, hopefully one of the professionals on the board will comment. 

Do you have the detailed heat loss calculations required for MCS certification?  This should have specified radiators for each room.  

You said you used 11203 kWh.  What is your heating and HW requirement from your EPC? Is your house very draughty/poorly insulated?

It sounds like your installer has some questions to answer.     

@jet hi, I totally get your frustration. Whilst I am no expert, there are some very knowledgeable people in this forum who will be able to offer support and advice. You are not alone, there are plenty of us here who have been very surprised by the cost of running ASHPs. I'll be watching replies with interest.

For what it is wort, the two changes I have made recently which seemed to have in somewhat begun to reduce my daily costs are: 

1. Changed the heating of the hot water tank from 24/7 to a scheduled time - trying to make use of daylight hours. (Thanks Derek)

2. Changed my heating to only heat when called upon, rather than 24/7 - N.B. yet to have tested how this actually works / speed to heat the house as we now don't have the heating on as we're into the warmer months.

But I'd recommend getting advice from the others in here before following what I have done as it may not suit you. 

Wow Jet, that is a large kW usage. 
A few questions as you property is a similar size to mine. And I have a HT ASHP. 
What was the original MCS heat required/loss calculation?  How much electric did it predict you’d need and at what temperature was the HP operating?

What was the SCOP?

Are you running the system at 80C? This will mean a low SCOP and hence high cost?

What is the EPC rating for the property?

Have you tried reducing the HP output temperature and running the system for long to maintain the temperature?  Less like a boiler, more like an ASHP 

Ive only had my system for a few weeks so can’t give you any feedback on performance like your view. Mine is effectively off now, with hot water heated via solar PV & electric diverter 

Hi Jet,

Welcome to the forum.

A good starting point, whatever heating system that you use, should be to improve your insulation and draftproofing, if at all possible.

As Kev M asked, do you have an EPC assessment and heat loss calculations? Please provide whatever information you have which will help in our investigation.

My next question would be where is your ASHP located? Does it have plenty of space around it for the cold exhaust to be dissipated into the surrounding atmosphere? If the cold exhaust is being drawn back into the intake, this can dramatically affect the operation and efficiency of your ASHP. An easy check is to measure the ambient air temperature in a shaded area well away from your ASHP, and then measure the temperature of the air being drawn into the intake. If there is a large difference then this could indicate a siting problem.

Why did you require a high temperature ASHP? Heat pumps are more efficient when operating at lower water flow temperatures and also when the ambient air temperature is above 5C.

Did you replace any of your radiators or are they the original ones? What was your previous heating system? Was it explained to you that ASHP's produce water at lower temperatures than other types of boiler and therefore may require larger radiators or under floor heating?

If you cannot get a room up to temperature when the radiator is hot, this would indicate that the radiator is too small or your heat loss is high. If the radiator is not getting up to temperature then obviously the problem is elsewhere.

I think that is enough for the time being, if you could answer the questions and then we can move on to the next stage of our investigation.

Regards,

Derek.

@jet

Hi, and commiserations on having an ashp fitted. I completely understand your frustrations.

Unlike you, I was unfortunate enough to buy a new build with an ashp. But the regret is the same. Whilst LG calculate a heat loss of nearly 9kw, Omnie - the system "designer" - and I use this term loosely. Do not use this company!- did an obviously very basic calculation, based purely on the EPC, and calculated it at 5.38kw. Due to this they specified a 9kw LG Therma  v pump, for a 2600 sq ft home. When temps drop below about 4°, our house struggles to heat and the noise from the pump is awful. Below 0, and we couldn't even heat just 3 rooms in a house with 14 thermostats. 

We have spent months trying to find a solution, but with no support from Omnie or Tophaven Sustainable builders, who refuse to accept any problems. 

Today we found a solution, but ASHP owners, don't get excited. We are going to spend over £6000 having gas brought to the property and a boiler fitted. We will attempt to sue the builder as the property does not have sufficient heating. I expect, though, that we will end up picking up the bill; however, I'm past caring and just want to get on with my life. 

You may be wondering, Jet, why I am telling you this. Up until today, our plan was to get a 12kw LG pump fitted to replace the 9kw unit. Having read your comments, our mind was finally made up to move to gas. I have no confidence that a larger unit will improve matters whatsoever.

To conclude, ASHPs are NOT the future. They are ineffective, noisy and hideously expensive to run. Having never thought about heating, I have spent the last 6 months of my life thinking about little else. Flow rates, compensation curves... it shouldn't be this painful. 

To anyone considering one, DO NOT! You may just think, oh one person's experience is irrelevant, but ask yourself, how many articles have you ever read where people are complaining about other heating systems?

Just DON'T!

Roll in summer, perhaps then we can actually sleep in our own bedroom as the pump won't run all night and keep us awake - hurrah!

@sam

Thanks Sam for your warning and as I currently have oil which keeps my property toasty am also nervous about the many horror stories out there.

I am however also very aware and up to date on the government and civilised worlds plans to reduced emissions. Part of this plan is to reduce and eventually remove fossil fuel heating. Oil and gas etc. This is what got me starting to look. By 2025 no new homes will be allowed to be built with fossil fuel boilers and must have renewable heat sources, namely heat pumps. 

I agree that generally from what I hear heat pumps are poor either by design or installation but I equally think they are the future. The sixth carbon budget and climate change committee talk about them exclusively. 

@phil3822

Hi,

They may well be the future, but at the moment the products, installers and systems designers are generally not fit for purpose. I'd compare it, bizarrely, to when videos launched; don't buy now and end up with the Beta max equivalent.

Whilst I appreciate that returning to a gas model is disappointing from an environmental aspect, it's our only viable option. Wait a good few years, then maybe consider it would be my advice, but I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.

@sam

Thanks and I think you give sound advice, although I am enquiring and learning i am not yet in any rush.

Sam

I am sorry the ASHP did not work out for you. I’m only 3 weeks into mine, so don’t have any of your experience. But as Phil says, gas boilers will be banned for new builds. We have to stop burning stuff. 
So I genuinely believe ASHPs are the future. I think your system was incorrectly designed. I don’t have any specific evidence, Only the positive comments of correctly installed ASHPs on this and other sites. 
Good luck with you gas installation. 

Hi Sam,

I fully understand your desire to return to a gas boiler, and if or when you do so, make certain it is one that is deemed 'Hydrogen Ready'. I hate to see people like yourself, treated in such a disreputable manner, by mediocre companies who appear to be allowed to get away with it. You should advertise their 'excellent' performance far and wide.

In the meantime would you humour me and carry out a simple test with your ASHP. Some time ago I suggested that you build a simple duct around your ASHP to draw air from above the pump rather than from the sides. It would then be possible to prove whether or not your pump is incorrectly sited. If you are not certain what I mean I can do a 'fag packet' drawing. If it is the case that your pump is poorly sited, it would be much cheaper to move your ASHP to a more convenient place and extend the pipework.

If you are not certain how to build the ducting, I would be willing to come and give you a hand. If you wish me to do so, then you can pass your details to me via Mars, if you do not wish to post them on the website.

Let me know what you wish to do.

Regards,

Derek.

Sorry to hear that @sam.  It sounds like you have been treated shoddily by your suppliers.  I suppose it's one of the dangers of being an early adopter (although not that early if new gas installatiions really are going to be banned so soon).   Fossil fuels are very good at what they do and also comparatively cheap. If I could have had gas for £6k I probably would have. 

The industry will catch up. Early EVs were very expensive and their performance (range) in the real world was a disappointment. They are much better now and closer to their fossil fuel counterparts in performance and price. Hopefully ASHP systems will be the same because there isn't really an alternative at the moment.     

Good Luck.

Personally for me, I don't see how ASHPs can be the future at the moment - whilst I understand the environmental benefits, I don't really understand how people on low income jobs will be able to afford the running costs. 

We appear to be quite lucky to be fair, our costs aren't anywhere near as high as some of the others here, our highest was February at £163. But, I know for a fact tho if my mum or grandparents had a bill for £163 just for electricity just for one month it would be a struggle. Until the unit price of electricity comes down, I would worry that ASHPs in new builds, especially in affordable housing areas. To me it feels like setting people up for problems (be it if they're set up incorrectly or correctly)

Sadly we only had a Smart meter fitted in September and I only started paying attention to the bills from November so need to wait a while longer before I can see the data / impact on wallet for a full 12 months. I am definitely noticing the bills come down.

I think the biggest failure our side was our expectations were not managed. We were sold the house as "it'll be much cheaper", if I'd just set the direct debit to £100 a month (as it is now) I doubt I'd be paying much attention to it now. Unfortunately I didn't, even the electricity firm changed our direct debit from £45 to £23 after the summer - which shows they don't fully understand ASHPs.