@rusty agreed.

I hate to say it, but the onus is increasingly on the homeowner to educate themselves as much as possible before a heat pump install, because too many installers simply can’t be trusted to get it right. You have to be vigilant and confident enough to question decisions, otherwise you’re leaving yourself exposed to a sub-par system that you’ll be living with for years.

Posted by: @editor

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@rusty agreed.

I hate to say it, but the onus is increasingly on the homeowner to educate themselves as much as possible before a heat pump install, because too many installers simply can’t be trusted to get it right. You have to be vigilant and confident enough to question decisions, otherwise you’re leaving yourself exposed to a sub-par system that you’ll be living with for years.

For me this sums up what I have learned in my 3 year journey so far.  Of course 'caveat emptor' is universally true - if there is an opportunity to scam another human being then some lowlife will find and exploit it.  It has always been that way and in my, now slightly resigned, opinion it always will be that way, because its just a symptom of the human condition. 

Caveat Emptor now applies just as much, possibly more, in information space; whereas we used to have a small number of largely reputable sources of information, we now have a diverse range of often disreputable sources competing for our attention, the principal purpose of which is either to land us as advertising catch or deliberately to deceive us in order to further their own ends, which generally include dismembering or completely eradicating the few reliable sources of information that have survived.  

I cant currently see a way out of this mire born of human greed, which is depressing.  Religion once offered some sort of fairly universal moral baseline, albeit that some of its hierarchy used their position in ways that was less than admirable.  That baseline is effectively gone, certainly in the UK.   We now rely, it seems, on well intentioned (or reasonably well intentioned) people to be successful in getting into positions of power, yet the odds are stacked against them because their opponents don't respect any moral rules.

The only hope I can see is education (which of course some of the bad actors seek to undermine).  In the limited sphere of heat pumps educating consumers and potential consumers might help them to avoid the cowboys and get the rewarding experience that is possible and which they deserve.  

All a bit depressing for a Monday morning!

@jamespa, I agree with you entirely.

Greed, money and power are corrosive forces, and this isn’t a uniquely UK problem at all. I’ve lived abroad, and we still have family living in several other countries... the same behaviours exist everywhere. Different schemes, different acronyms, same human instincts.

I think the frustration here is that we expect better from the UK. Britain has spent decades branding itself as fair, regulated, consumer-focused and trustworthy. When you then see vulnerable homeowners left to fend for themselves, poor work waved through and bad actors protected by layers of “process”, it feels like a deeper betrayal of that image.

You’re also absolutely right about the information space too. The sheer volume of noise, marketing dressed up as expertise and outright misinformation makes it harder than ever for homeowners to know who to trust. Education becomes the only real defence, which is exhausting, because it shouldn’t have to be this way. That's why forums like these are important IMO.

In the narrow world of heat pumps, all we can realistically do is exactly what you’ve said: help people understand enough to spot the red flags, ask better questions and avoid the worst of the cowboys. It won’t fix the system, but it might stop a few people being chewed up by it.

Depressing, yes, but I’d still rather shine a light on it than pretend it isn’t happening, helping people avoid unnecessary stress in the process through the info we share here.

Great article and so true from our perspective. We’re in a third winter with a substandard installation, fitting with the warranty company who covered ‘workmanship’ whilst they try everything in the book not to pay out. 

Our system tends to fail in the cold weather but miraculously it only failed once in the past week which I was able to reset. That being said, in the very cold weather we couldn’t get many rooms about 16/17 and our electricity is over £500 as the pump works overtime to get the house to this low temp!

I also installed the heat pump to help the environment with the added bonus that our bills would be cheaper. So far that hasn’t panned out.

It is soul destroying not knowing how we will ever get the house warm in winter. We also use a log burner to keep warm which seems ironic. 

Hi @fiona - you have described out exact situation! Over £500 a month and a wood burner to keep warm. I've just been out chopping wood as we are nearly running out! We keep the living quarters warm with the wood burner. I echo the soul destroying bit. Keep on keeping on! x

Posted by: @fiona

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Great article and so true from our perspective. We’re in a third winter with a substandard installation, fitting with the warranty company who covered ‘workmanship’ whilst they try everything in the book not to pay out. 

Our system tends to fail in the cold weather but miraculously it only failed once in the past week which I was able to reset. That being said, in the very cold weather we couldn’t get many rooms about 16/17 and our electricity is over £500 as the pump works overtime to get the house to this low temp!

I also installed the heat pump to help the environment with the added bonus that our bills would be cheaper. So far that hasn’t panned out.

It is soul destroying not knowing how we will ever get the house warm in winter. We also use a log burner to keep warm which seems ironic. 

 

 

 

@fiona @johnbroome 

I'm sorry to hear this.

Can I just ask if you have done the key things which are necessary to get a heat pump working both cheaply and effectively namely:

You are operating 24*7

Most or all of your TRVs and all your thermostats are set at least a couple of degrees above the desired temperature

All or at least most rooms are heated

You have adjusted the weather compensation curve to the lowest possible settings consistent with heating your house.

If you haven't done these you are almost certainly paying more than you need for a lower standard of comfort.

Heat pumps need to be operated differently to how we have been (wrongly) taught to operate boilers.  If you aren't doing so you will suffer. 

Apologies if you already know this and either way feel free to start a thread with some more information about your house, heat pump and heating system and I'm sure there will be plenty of offers of advice.

@jamespa thanks. After the installers went into administration we had an independent company come out to do a report on the system. They fixed some obvious issues when they were here but their take away was that the heat pump isn’t actually big enough for the size of the house and therefore we needed a new system (something I’m reluctant to pay for in case it still doesn’t heat the house sufficiently). I’ll try setting the thermostats higher but generally in winter they never get as high as they are set. Thanks!

Posted by: @editor

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@jamespa, I agree with you entirely.

Greed, money and power are corrosive forces, and this isn’t a uniquely UK problem at all. I’ve lived abroad, and we still have family living in several other countries... the same behaviours exist everywhere. Different schemes, different acronyms, same human instincts.

I think the frustration here is that we expect better from the UK. Britain has spent decades branding itself as fair, regulated, consumer-focused and trustworthy. When you then see vulnerable homeowners left to fend for themselves, poor work waved through and bad actors protected by layers of “process”, it feels like a deeper betrayal of that image.

You’re also absolutely right about the information space too. The sheer volume of noise, marketing dressed up as expertise and outright misinformation makes it harder than ever for homeowners to know who to trust. Education becomes the only real defence, which is exhausting, because it shouldn’t have to be this way. That's why forums like these are important IMO.

In the narrow world of heat pumps, all we can realistically do is exactly what you’ve said: help people understand enough to spot the red flags, ask better questions and avoid the worst of the cowboys. It won’t fix the system, but it might stop a few people being chewed up by it.

Depressing, yes, but I’d still rather shine a light on it than pretend it isn’t happening, helping people avoid unnecessary stress in the process through the info we share here.

Finger trouble …

I agree, somebody on the village Facebook site just posted with the familiar HP issues, I am trying to forward them to this forum in the hope that they can get advice, either on settings or an approach to the installer.

Sorry, it’s a bad/depressing Monday, I think I’ve detected a leak on our mains inlet pipe underneath the concrete/tiled porch. I fear an expensive and protracted fight with contractors and insurers!

Posted by: @fiona

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@jamespa thanks. After the installers went into administration we had an independent company come out to do a report on the system. They fixed some obvious issues when they were here but their take away was that the heat pump isn’t actually big enough for the size of the house and therefore we needed a new system (something I’m reluctant to pay for in case it still doesn’t heat the house sufficiently). I’ll try setting the thermostats higher but generally in winter they never get as high as they are set. Thanks!

OK the thing to understand about setting thermostats and TRVs (much) higher is that you are actually trying to disable them altogether.  You then need to operate the heat pump 24*7 and adjust the weather compensation curve (hopefully down) until the house is at the right temperature.  You then leave it ticking away on the weather compensation, with thermostats and TRVs (which are largely superfluous) doing absolutely nothing.  It turns out that this is, in most cases, the most comfortable and the cheapest way to operate.   

If you have already done that and your house is still not getting warm then it is possible that the heat pump is too small, but actually quite unlikely because the standard tools overestimate loss.  

My strong advice to you is put the thermostats and TRVs at max, leave the heat pump on 24x7 and see what happens.  Leave it for 24 hrs.  If the house overheats then you have an opportunity to reduce your cost and improve your comfort by adjusting the Weather compensation.  If the house doesn't overheat with these settings then we need to look deeper.

Also, check that your DHW is set to heat max twice per day, preferably only once per day, to a maximum of 48C.  

If you would like to share the report Im happy to take a look.

Dont give up - heat pumps are very good if done properly, and much of the time the issue is one of configuration not what's actually been installed.  Installers don't have the time to configure the systems properly so they just dial in some settings that they thing makes them immune from callouts. 

FWIW its the same with boilers, most are set up by installers in a way that costs 10% more to run and makes the householder less comfortable, but its quick for the installer and makes callouts less likely.

@jamespa you’re not based near the midlands are you? Happy to share the report if you want to tell me where to send it? We’re currently getting no where with warranty company. The heat pump isn’t actually on 24/7 but there are other acronyms you’ve used that I am not sure what they are. We’ve not personally touched the heat curve and have left that to the experts but it’s almost a year since the last one came out to do the report.

Posted by: @fiona

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@jamespa you’re not based near the midlands are you? Happy to share the report if you want to tell me where to send it? We’re currently getting no where with warranty company. The heat pump isn’t actually on 24/7 but there are other acronyms you’ve used that I am not sure what they are. We’ve not personally touched the heat curve and have left that to the experts but it’s almost a year since the last one came out to do the report.

Sorry Im not.  I should also be upfront in saying that Im not a heat pump professional and so restrict my activities to giving well meaning advice to be taken at recipient's risk.  My only relevant formal qualification is a degree in physics - which does help when you need to sift through the BS. 

Are you able to post the report here (DM me if it has details you dont want to share publicly).  It does sound like you are missing at least one opportunity to improve your comfort and possibly also your cost.  What is your current heating schedule?

What acronyms dont you understand.  TRV = Thermostatic radiator valve, DHW = domestic hot water, FWIW - for what its worth, BS - well you know what that means!.  

Posted by: @fiona

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@jamespa you’re not based near the midlands are you? Happy to share the report if you want to tell me where to send it? We’re currently getting no where with warranty company. The heat pump isn’t actually on 24/7 but there are other acronyms you’ve used that I am not sure what they are. We’ve not personally touched the heat curve and have left that to the experts but it’s almost a year since the last one came out to do the report.

@fiona, we do have a glossary thread to better understand the rather large amount of jargon ( https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/postid/51923/).  We also have an introductory article (Heat Pump Basics & Installation Guide | Renewable Heating Hub) to help you become quickly familiar with the basic concepts underpinning much of the advice generally bandied about on this forum.