Posted by: @jamespa

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The thing that is disallowed at present is export from plug-in batteries via the plug. 

 

Don't think export is disallowed as such, more that batteries are not allowed. As said, the system wont know or care if its via pv or storage. 

I've been told that Fuse Energy are preparing an export tariff for plug in, which sits outside of the MCS route. 

Posted by: @jamespa

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the Government have taken a very sensible pragmatic approach to getting the concept of 'plug-in' over the line in the face of the objection s raised by the installation industry. 

 

Lets hope that now they have gained applause for approving plug in solar they don't fart about too long before getting around to the batteries. 

Posted by: @dansus

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Posted by: @jamespa

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The thing that is disallowed at present is export from plug-in batteries via the plug. 

 

Don't think export is disallowed as such, more that [plug-in] batteries are not allowed. As said, the system wont know or care if its via pv or storage. 

I've been told that Fuse Energy are preparing an export tariff for plug in, which sits outside of the MCS route. 

 

I agree, although I am not sure if that indirectly prohibits export from plug-in batteries.

Anyway the main point is that the Government has, at least in my view given the recent history, followed a sensible, pragmatic yet clearly determined route despite the established industry attempts to derail this altogether.  By releasing the interim product spec (and associated independent report) as early as realistically possible they have robustly rebutted all of the industry objections to this limited subset of the product range and as a consequence most (possibly all) of the industry objections to the fuller range.  This paves the way for expansion of the range at a later point, neuters most of the industry 'ammunition' and makes a clear statement of intent to the plug in industry.  Im not sure what more we could expect of Government, I think we could expect the installation industry to act with greater integrity, or at least to keep quiet rather than raising unsubstantiated objections which, prima facie, serve their own interests but not those of the UK population or the human race more generally.

Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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Posted by: @jamespa

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the Government have taken a very sensible pragmatic approach to getting the concept of 'plug-in' over the line in the face of the objection s raised by the installation industry. 

 

Lets hope that now they have gained applause for approving plug in solar they don't fart about too long before getting around to the batteries. 

 

Agreed.

I guess that the next stage is to drop the 'interim' from the product spec and make it apply both the PV and batteries.  To do this they will need to consider risks associated with batteries and probably a few other things to do with aspects of PV which have been worked around or limited in the interim spec.  Most of the risks which the industry have raised are associated with the 'plug in' feature, so have already been considered, but doubtless there are some others that they will need to include (such as fire protection) in order to create a full spec. 

Its not difficult to imagine this taking up to a year by the time they have done adequate consultation, dealt robustly with any safety based objections (however ill founded), then reconsulted etc, but of course it may well already be underway or even fairly well advanced.

I expect the installation industry (which I suspect sees this as a major blow, perhaps existential for some) will have another go at stopping it, perhaps raising objections like 'if batteries are located without a proper fire risk assessment undertaken by a professional, how do you know that they wont spontaneously ignite or wont be located next to a fuel store and cause the building to burn down' or 'how do you guarantee that the customer cant put a screwdriver between the terminals of an expansion module, thus causing a fire?' or 'how do you guarantee they arent put on a slope and exposed to wind, which causes them to fall over dangerously?   Of course there are solutions to these but thy will need to be developed into a spec or rules that must be incorporated into a manual.   Much of this can in reality be cribbed from Germany, but you and I would have said exactly the same about plug in solar, yet somehow the industry found ways to claim that we are different, which the Government needed evidence to rebut hence the delay so far.

Be interesting to see if they quietly allow Lidl's DC connected battery (Marstek) to be sold from day one, if so, then that will open a can of worms. 

Posted by: @dansus

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Be interesting to see if they quietly allow Lidl's DC connected battery (Marstek) to be sold from day one, if so, then that will open a can of worms. 

Indeed.   I guess the questions are, who is responsible for enforcement and would Lidl want to flout the regs.  The answer to the second question is - I doubt it, so perhaps the dilemma you describe wont occur.  I don't know the answer to the first question, but for certain its not the Government.  Probably trading standards which is the District/Unitary council.  I doubt it will be top of their list for enforcing (nor would I personally want it to be).

I am told that you can already buy 'plug in' batteries where the plug has been removed.  Far be it from me to suggest that someone might wire a plug on or even connect it to a fused switched spur.  Of course there are potentially insurance risks with that approach, although whether these are material and exactly what rule (if any) you might be breaking if you did either of the above I dont know, particularly if you are 'competent', a term which is not always defined.

Posted by: @indevolt-tech

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The PowerFlex 3000 is equipped with a bi-directional inverter and grid-synchronisation hardware, meaning it is physically capable of grid feed-in from the battery. To ensure strict compliance with current UK regulations, the plug-in mode operates under a firmware logic that disables battery-to-grid discharge over the wall plug.

And how does the Powerflex firmware 'know' that it is plugged in to a wall socket?

Are you referring to a configuration parameter which is set by the customer?

Posted by: @jamespa

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 I guess the questions are, who is responsible for enforcement 

Trading Standards. 

Posted by: @jamespa

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I am told that you can already buy 'plug in' batteries where the plug has been removed.  Far be it from me to suggest that someone might wire a plug on or even connect it to a fused switched spur.

You can buy all this stuff easily, and if its ENA registered, get a sparky to hook it up. 

Humour me chaps.

Indevolt plan to skirt the regs by doing what DJI does - ignore them with regard to plug in solar. 

Sell a off grid battery unit (that just so happens to be able to back feed if requested to). The DJI power 2000 is just a big battery that charges from the socket, its legal to buy here already and has been for years.

It doesnt care if the electrons on your house grid are from the sun or not, theyve not had a problem selling here...

@sonosppp 

Sorry i am not sure what you are trying to say.  Are you accusing indeviot of flouting regs, saying that others do the same or what?  Perhaps you could clarify

@dansus obviously you can get a sparky to connect things up just as you can buy wired in batteries and solar.  However that rather defeats the whole point of 'plug in'.

Posted by: @jamespa

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obviously you can get a sparky to connect things up just as you can buy wired in batteries and solar.  However that rather defeats the whole point of 'plug in'.

True, but plug in batteries are not allowed, so if you want it now, get someone to wire it in. A friend was quoted for £260 for RCBO, 10m armoured and fused spur. G98 is free. 

For a unit that's wired in and has battery sockets that remain live do you also need the grounding rod and changeover. I know you do if you feed power back into the house but I can't make head or tails of the situation if it's wired in and only providing power on sockets in the unit itself.