Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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3. Standalone Off-Grid / EPS Mode:
The unit can be plugged into a wall socket solely for AC grid charging, using its dedicated off-grid EPS sockets to directly power isolated appliances without any back-feed into the home wiring.

Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong but it's all new.

As I understand it this is true, but (3) is an alternative mode of operation (eg for camping) not the unique mode of operation

Put simply (to my understanding)

• it has both a plug (*male connector) and a socket (female connector).  You plug the plug into a socket on your house wiring.  It also has separate DC connections for directly connected solar panels.
• it can charge at up to 3kW though the plug from the mains and/or through directly connected solar panels which plug into the DC connections.  If you already have solar connected to your house circuitry via an inverter, it sees this as 'mains'
• it can discharge at up to 800W (through the same plug as it uses to charge), but only if the grid is connected.
• it can discharge at up to 3kW (provided you have an expansion battery) through a dedicated socket on the back.  Without an expansion battery the max discharge rate through the socket on the back is less.  This can occur whether or not the grid is connected.  If the grid is connected the discharge can (but does not have to) occur simultaneously with 'charging', so it acts as a 'pass through'.
• there are several options to control whether it charges or discharges at any point in time, including responding to some ToU tarrifs

Does that help, @indevolt-tech may be able to clarify further

What I am unclear about is how it determines the energy flowing to/from the grid (which I think it needs to know in some control modes) as it appears not to have a CT clamp.  I think this may be through a linked Shelley device but this is unclear from the website nor, is it clear which Shelley or other devices can be used (and in particular whether the most common Shelly-EM qualifies).  Nor is it clear whether the device has to be dedicated to the Indevolt or can also be polled by other systems (eg Home Assistant).  @indevolt-tech please can you clarify this matter.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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3. Standalone Off-Grid / EPS Mode:
The unit can be plugged into a wall socket solely for AC grid charging, using its dedicated off-grid EPS sockets to directly power isolated appliances without any back-feed into the home wiring.

Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong but it's all new.

As I understand it this is true, but (3) is an alternative mode of operation (eg for camping) not the unique mode of operation

Put simply (to my understanding)

 

• it has both a plug (*male connector) and a socket (female connector).  You plug the plug into a socket on your house wiring.  It also has separate DC connections for directly connected solar panels.
• it can charge at up to 3kW though the plug from the mains and/or through directly connected solar panels which plug into the DC connections.  If you already have solar connected to your house circuitry via an inverter, it sees this as 'mains'
• it can discharge at up to 800W (through the same plug as it uses to charge), but only if the grid is connected.
• it can discharge at up to 3kW (provided you have an expansion battery) through a dedicated socket on the back.  Without an expansion battery the max discharge rate through the socket on the back is less.  This can occur whether or not the grid is connected.  If the grid is connected the discharge can (but does not have to) occur simultaneously with 'charging', so it acts as a 'pass through'.
• there are several options to control whether it charges or discharges at any point in time, including responding to some ToU tarrifs

Does that help, @indevolt-tech may be able to clarify further

What I am unclear about is how it determines the energy flowing to/from the grid (which I think it needs to know in some control modes) as it appears not to have a CT clamp.  I think this may be through a linked Shelley device but this is unclear from the website nor, is it clear which Shelley or other devices can be used (and in particular whether the most common Shelly-EM qualifies).  Nor is it clear whether the device has to be dedicated to the Indevolt or can also be polled by other systems (eg Home Assistant).  @indevolt-tech please can you clarify this matter.

It comes supplied with an indevolt smart meter and CT clamp.

But I think according to Aug 26 regs you are not permitted to export from a battery.

Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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It comes supplied with an indevolt smart meter and CT clamp.

 

Oh, I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual!

Posted by: @jamespa

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Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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It comes supplied with an indevolt smart meter and CT clamp.

 

Oh, I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual!

It's on the offer page preselected

Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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Posted by: @jamespa

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Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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It comes supplied with an indevolt smart meter and CT clamp.

 

Oh, I didn't spot that anywhere in the manual!

It's on the offer page preselected

 

The smart meter looks like a DIN module, designed to fit in a CU.  If so its hardly compatible with the idea of 'plug in'.  So unless you can throw that away and use the CT clamp stand alone (plugging into what - the manual doesnt show a CT connection on the back?) then something is 'missing'.  @indevolt-tech please clarify!

Posted by: @blizzardgreen

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But I think according to Aug 26 regs you are not permitted to export from a battery.

 

that's correct as set out above.  The interim product spec issued by the Govt expressly excludes batteries.  However its a fair (I would say almost certain) bet that the final spec (for which we don't yet have a confirmed timescale) will include them given that the major hurdle namely established industry objections to the very concept of plug in (based IMHO on pure self-interest) has now been firmly overruled!

Posted by: @editor

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Thinking about this, at the point where electricity enters the household circuit, I struggle to see a meaningful distinction between 800W arriving directly from a solar inverter and 800W arriving from a battery inverter. In either case, it is approximately 3.5A flowing into the same socket circuit. The cable, socket, consumer unit and local network do not know whether those electrons came straight from a PV panel or were stored in a battery for several hours first.

They could, and should have allowed storage on the DC side, say upto 5kWh to start with, but then we wouldn't be feeding free power back into the grid and energy companies will loose a chunk of their profits. 

Posted by: @dansus

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Posted by: @editor

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Thinking about this, at the point where electricity enters the household circuit, I struggle to see a meaningful distinction between 800W arriving directly from a solar inverter and 800W arriving from a battery inverter. In either case, it is approximately 3.5A flowing into the same socket circuit. The cable, socket, consumer unit and local network do not know whether those electrons came straight from a PV panel or were stored in a battery for several hours first.

They could, and should have allowed storage on the DC side, say upto 5kWh to start with, but then we wouldn't be feeding free power back into the grid and energy companies will loose a chunk of their profits. 

 

The thing that is disallowed at present is export from plug-in batteries via the plug. 

Done blame the government for the current situation, blame the established industry, which has tried its very best to prevent any plug in from being allowed. 

The Government have taken a very sensible pragmatic approach which is to commission a report to prove that the industry 'safety concerns' are largely trumped up, and then to permit the quickest and easiest thing to permit whilst at the same time overruling the key industry objections, thus paving the way to expand the range of permitted products to batteries whilst at the same time effectively dismissing the industry's self-interested representations as soon as realistically possible.

This is a clear case where the Government has done the most sensible thing in the circumstances, with a clear short and long term objective and despite the self-interested representations from the industry.