@transparent I should think the total amount of data sent in a block amounts to considerably less than 1 second’s worth of speech quality audio (and of course, it does not need to be sent at such a high data rate anyway). Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @transparent

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No one is contemplating there being a period where the 3G coverage is decommissioned prior to the new Hubs being available.

It has taken quite a long time to achieve 70% meters being smart. The timeline for 2G/3G transition is within the next 10 years, at least according to https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/252592/3G-and-2G-switch-off.pdf.

The UK’s mobile network operators have confirmed to the Government that they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033 at the latest.

I have complete faith that the mobile networks would not dare shut down a tower without ensuring all smart meters they provide communication for have been migrated.

Posted by: @transparent

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Remember too that the Comms Hubs require a very slow data rate.

It's almost like the comms hub has different requirements to the mobile network ... low data rates, non-real time communications, smooth traffic profiles, multicast signals to control load-shedding.

Posted by: @chickenbig

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I have complete faith that the mobile networks would not dare shut down a tower without ensuring all smart meters they provide communication for have been migrated.

I trust your tongue is firmly in your cheek here?

speaking as someone who lives an an area with where the mobile operator that was previously "the best coverage" closed their 3G cell without bothering to do physical checks on 4G coverage (they trusted the maps, which are wrong when you get on the ground). approximately another 12 months to get coverage back . sorry moaning on the wrong board... 

Posted by: @chickenbig

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It's almost like the comms hub has different requirements to the mobile network ... low data rates, non-real time communications, smooth traffic profiles, multicast signals to control load-shedding.

DESNZ and Ofgem are well aware of the disconnect between those agencies/companies who form parts of the GB energy supply system.

This is one of many reasons for creating an Independent System Operator and Planner (ISOP) to take over from National Grid ESO during 2024.

In turn, ISOP will have Regional Energy System Planners (RESPs) who understand what's happening in their area and prevent telecoms infrastructure being decommissioned whilst its still required to support energy networks. We're discussing that over here.

If the general public wants it to be so, then those RESPs could be very useful/powerful.
Their composition isn't yet decided, and I'm providing feedback on that to those who are making the decisions.

There must be democratic accountability for RESPs in order to provide a check on ISOP.
However, I'd also like to see them embrace the need for technical expertise, to better inform their advice and decision-making processes on behalf of ISOP.

There's a lot of content in this Forum which needs channeling into the new structure.

Octopus have released a new tracker tariff for new customers will use going forward.

The new tariff is more expensive than the old tariff (about 2.3p/kWh more for electricity), but fortunately any existing customers will remain on the old tariff. The new tariff still offers great savings vs standard rates so is well worth considering.

If you'd like to read more information, Octopus have a blog detailing the changes - https://octopus.energy/tracker-faqs/.

Average (old) tracker rates since 1st Jan 2023 are around:
Elec: 21p
Gas: 6p
(Maybe less?)

Today's Octopus (old) Tracker rates in Southern area were:
11/12/23 -
Elec: 18.22p/kWh,
Gas: 4.95p/kWh

Standard Octopus rates are:
Elec: 27.35p/kWh,
Gas: 6.88p/kWh

Both old and new Trackers offer huge savings vs standard rates and so will still be good on the new Tracker rates too.
Tracker rates have not gone above standard rates at all on any day in 2023.
Business electricity tariffs have fallen off a cliff during the year.

For anyone that's been forced to sign up for excessively high fixed term contracts over last year it may be worth checking terms & conditions to break the contract early. Even if there is a penalty it may be worth taking?

If you're with Octopus already you can switch by contacting them by email, twitter etc

If you're not with Octopus it's worth considering joining. If you initially join using their standard tariff you can then immediately request a change to tracker by contacting them.

Terms & conditions look worse than they are in reality. If for any reason you don't like tracker or find a fixed contract you prefer you can switch back to standard rates on one day notice so its no big commitment - T&C say it can take up to 2 weeks to process but I believe is typically quicker.

I am in the unfortunate situation of having a smart meter and no signal. In fact I have had 4 meters installed as this is the only (failed) solution the energy companies provide.

Like many we are now a disadvantage group, missing out on opportunities to reduce our costs. I now feel that compensation should be paid to those in this group to offset the potential savings that could be made if we had a functional meter. As a group we should write to all concerned, ofgem, energy company and MPs expressing our anger and a right to compensation. After all compensation is often paid between companies when systems fail. Compensation to the end user might be the impedes that is need to force change and for everybody to have the ability to have a functional Smart meter.

@prjohn I totally sympathise as you are being economically disadvantaged by not having access to the cheaper tariffs available with a working smart meter. Have there been attempts to get a working signal with external antennae etc?

@iancalderbank No attempt to use an antenna, they just keep changing meters every time I complain. I didn't know an antenna was an option.

Posted by: @prjohn

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I didn't know an antenna was an option.

There are a number of different options available to your meter installer.

Go over to the topic on Smart Meters and you'll see I've posted photos of different types of Communications Hubs which can take aerials.

Have a read, because others there have similar issues to you.
Then post a photo of your own meter there so we can discuss it on a thread with the 'right' people viewing it.

Posted by: @prjohn

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 they just keep changing meters every time I complain

This is familiar. All utility company customer service call centre flow charts relating to smart meters were a Friday afternoon job. All end with 'change the meter'. I had an issue with Octopus repeatedly failing to apply my PV export credit to each monthly bill this summer. 'The meter must be faulty' came the stock reply. I pointed out that I had all the 30 minute import/export data on screen in front of me, downloaded from Octopus' servers, so if I could access it, so could they. Also it was correctly transmitting import data, which would also be missing or incomplete if the meter was failing to communicate. Long silence followed by 'but we think the meter is faulty'... (It was a billing issue BTW)

In the past hour the Dept for Energy Security and Nett Zero has announced a technical consultation on a proposal to obtain data from some Smart Meters via the internet.

This has been prompted by an assessment that there are 328,000 dwellings in the UK which would never be able to access the National Smart Meter Network (SMWAN).
But 95% of those do (or could have) adequate internet access.

At this stage I'm unsure if the general public will be invited to take part.
There are specific questions regarding regulations and security for which DESNZ seeks answers.
Those issues would really only be understood by Ofgem, DCC and members of the SEC.

At this stage, this not a decision to proceed in the direction of using the internet.
That would have legal & financial implications.

Rather, it is opening a discussion to check whether the group of parties who have oversight of the SMWAN think this is technically achievable and what additional security measures would need to be in place.

That might seem overly-cautious.
But consider what might ensue if the internet connection failed, or was interrupted, for a house on a prepayment Smart Meter.
If a householder in energy-poverty can't afford to pay the internet bill for a couple of months, does that mean they'd lose their electricity supply too?

There's a great deal to consider, and there are ethical implications involved.

@transparent interesting. do you have a link? I couldn't find it.  Architecting this kind of technology is exactly what I do professionally, but never been able to break into the govt side as a closed shop operates.