Posted by: @transparent

↑

I'm not thinking that Balcony Solar should be disallowed, but that the micro-inverters need to be quality-assured.

Let's look at the economics:

Ikea in Germany are reportedly offering a kit for €450, which equates to £390
That's an 800w micro-inverter with two 450w (peak) solar panels, cabling and some mounting brackets.

I can buy an 800w micro-inverter on AliExpress for just under or just over £100 incl import tax, VAT and carriage to UK.

I can buy a 400w+ solar panel from Midsummer Wholesale for £79 +VAT (say £95), but the carriage costs for just two panels are high because they come on a pallet-delivery.
It would be better for a Community Energy organisation to coordinate purchases.

In neither situation do I enquire about slave labour...
... because we're interested only in costs at the moment.

 

Or I can already order a complete 800W kit on Ebay UK for £349 which includes carriage.

The Seller is identifiable and based in Telford.
It's marked 'private' (not business), prohibits returns and doesn't provide a VAT number.

 

Since the DESNZ has stated (today) that they intend making Balcony Solar permissible within a few months, let's assume that these micro-inverters aren't certified, nor tested to de-couple from the grid within the usual G98 specifications.

The profit margins are probably too low to pay for test certification.

Each Seller will ship a few, then close the account and open a new one.
The link I've just provided above won't work for much longer.

By the time the Secretary of State declares such kits may be purchased and installed legally in GB, there will already be thousands connected.

 

So the big challenge is one of trust.

How can a consumer have confidence in these plug-in micro-inverters to operate reliably and safely? That's probably now impossible to achieve.

The best we can suggest is that they're less likely to create fires in comparison with 'replacement' chargers for e-Bikes and Scooters.

The IKEA kit you mention is the ECO Flow Stream kit. You can already buy it in the UK, but the cable connecting to your house wiring has to be installed by an electrician in the UK currently, unlike some other countries where it can be plugged into a mains socket which is what the UK government are working towards. It is available on Amazon and the Ecoflow website in the UK. Their Micro inverter is already certified. £129 including postage, they do packages including the panels. 

There are a few youtube videos etc on it. There are also optional batteries in the ECO Flow Stream setup on their website and Amazon and the IKEA article you mentioned. There are quite a lot of DIY installs of this kit already in the UK, some already plugged into mains sockets......

Be interesting to see what manufacturer will be stocked in Lidl. 

Wicks have made big gains from their solar panel install offer, I suspect their brand is valued by the general public, so I would not be surprised to see these sort of plug in solutions in DIY stores this year. Given the price point we could see a dramatic increase in the number of homes with small scale solar quite quickly. 

I hope the government don't make the whole thing too complicated and costly which will put people off given the success in other countries. 

Posted by: @jeff

↑

I hope the government don't make the whole thing too complicated and costly which will put people off given the success in other countries. 

I have no doubt that the industry is lobbying furiously in an attempt to make sure exactly that happens.  

Posted by: @jamespa

↑

Posted by: @jeff

↑

I hope the government don't make the whole thing too complicated and costly which will put people off given the success in other countries. 

I have no doubt that the industry is lobbying furiously in an attempt to make sure exactly that happens.  

Yep... If it is mandated an electrician needs to be involved it will slow the whole thing down. Also signing up for SEG needs to be made easy. 

@jeff Aren’t these systems looked at more as an adjunct to grid use to reduce consumption from same rather than as a means of export. I mean, I know that they are capable of feeding the grid but from what I have heard, seen and read, they are more a tool to serve for one’s base load and preferably with a battery to enable use of one’s own power at non-solar hours? Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

↑

@jeff Aren’t these systems looked at more as an adjunct to grid use to reduce consumption from same rather than as a means of export. I mean, I know that they are capable of feeding the grid but from what I have heard, seen and read, they are more a tool to serve for one’s base load and preferably with a battery to enable use of one’s own power at non-solar hours? Regards, Toodles.

Yes

But if they are exporting electricity sometimes then I think customers should be paid for it. 

For example the Ecoflow system includes an optional battery, whether than will be "allowed" in an official solution in a few months time it is not clear. Also some people will go for the cheaper option of no batteries for around £400 I suspect. The headline £400 doesn't include a battery but some news paper articles are quoting other figures as well including a battery. 

@jeff Oh yes, indeed they should! (Pity about the recent drop in price paid though😟) all good things have to come to an end I suppose. Regards, Tooodles.

Posted by: @toodles

↑

@jeff Oh yes, indeed they should! (Pity about the recent drop in price paid though😟) all good things have to come to an end I suppose. Regards, Tooodles.

Yes, I am no expert, but I think we have to assume low rates when installing solar at home  from now on as there is so much large scale solar being installed under CfD contracts that needs to be paid for on our bills irrespective if it is used. 

@jeff At least Greg seems to see it the same way as we do on RHH! Regards, Toodles.

@Jeff, I hope it's not overcomplicated either. I'm looking into other plug-in tech too, and it sounds like we're going to have to upgrade quite a few things in our CUs and DBs. I'd rather have a system that's actually safe than take any shortcuts.

Having said that, I'm actually glad the government is moving slowly on full socket plug-in. I'd rather see proper low-power certified kits with built-in export limiting hit Lidl and Wickes this summer than a wild west of half-legal hacks.

Posted by: @jeff

↑

For example the Ecoflow system includes an optional battery, whether than will be "allowed" in an official solution in a few months time it is not clear.

I have it on semi-good authority that this will also be allowed with the required CU/DB upgrades to RCBOs.

Posted by: @editor

↑

@Jeff, I hope it's not overcomplicated either. I'm looking into other plug-in tech too, and it sounds like we're going to have to upgrade quite a few things in our CUs and DBs. I'd rather have a system that's actually safe than take any shortcuts.

Having said that, I'm actually glad the government is moving slowly on full socket plug-in. I'd rather see proper low-power certified kits with built-in export limiting hit Lidl and Wickes this summer than a wild west of half-legal hacks.

Yep I agree. 

With so many people already going down the DIY route it is only a matter of time before the flood gates open anyway with the products already available like the ECO flow. 

Better we see good quality plug in solutions. I find it hard to believe the government will back out now, but it will be interesting to see the final details and if any "sign off" is required. 

I totally get the good points that @transparent made about safety. 

Posted by: @editor

↑

Posted by: @jeff

↑

For example the Ecoflow system includes an optional battery, whether than will be "allowed" in an official solution in a few months time it is not clear.

I have it on semi-good authority that this will also be allowed with the required CU/DB upgrades to RCBOs.

Good to know. 

Will the requirement be to install the RCBO in the CU/DB or will one in the socket be allowed if one is installed already? I suspect this is not sufficient or the correct RCBO. 

https://www.toolstation.com/masterplug-ev-weatherproof-socket/pAF469