@delt wow. I see your point. What is the price of a whole new unit?  I suppose if your engine part e.g. alternator fails, they only guarantee that for 1year. Backing the oil boiler would be a whole new unit, so a new warranty. But you know you don’t want a smelly old/new boiler 😊. I hope you find an agreeable solution

Posted by: @julianc

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What is the price of a whole new unit?

I priced some very cheap ways to get a whole new unit earlier in this topic.

The issue here is that the heat-pump manufacturers/models which are approved by MCS for installation in the UK, are not subject to any checks on lifetime cost.

MCS haven't implemented the "right to repair" strategy which is becoming increasingly demanded by UK consumers.
As such they haven't imposed any requirements on the extent of warranty, access to spares or costs of long-term maintenance.

Heat pumps are being sold in similar fashion to how washing machines and fridges used to be.
If they break, the repair costs are so high and guarantees so poor, that the incentive is for consumers to throw them away.

That utterly undermines the whole point of Government asking MCS to lead us on the path to Net Zero.

No wonder the level of heat pump installation is so low.

The 'developing world' is much better placed to handle these issues than we are in Western countries.

They don't like smart devices with apps and user-interfaces to control them.
Without that top-layer of complexity, their appliances operate within the level of technology which can be serviced with minimal equipment.
Their proportion of equipment repair is much higher than ours.

If I was in Rwanda with an air-conn unit which broke, I could get it diagnosed and repaired by a local technician within hours.
Moreover the repair cost would be massively lower than replacement.

@transparent Thanks - some v useful, but rather tragic, insights here. For the person in the street it would be a huge hassle and headache to consider installing a cheap non MCS unit, so not a route that many would take I guess

Honestly, if I hadnt been lucky enough to benefit from the RHI scheme which covered my running costs for 7 years (others may easily have missed out on qualifying), it would have been a very poor economic decision overall. I have made further investments in solar & battery to keep running costs down and live in hope that the relative costs of electricity to gas/oil will begin to correct the cost differential.

I hope this thread has at least highlighted the repair/warranty considerations for heat pumps - for sure when I am back looking for a replacement unit I will be asking some far more probing questions of the supplier/support network than I did when I bought my system in 2010.

Your insights have been useful to us too @delt

Overall, the level of knowledge within the general population is far too low

• to adequately enquire about technical aspects of a system proposed by an installer
• to assess the overall 'cost of ownership' throughout the predicted lifetime
• to ensure that household energy systems are adequately resilient against failure, price hikes and power-outages
• to be able to undertake required maintenance on a DIY basis

Yesterday evening I gave a 3-hour illustrated open Q&A session on 'Energy Matters' in a remote/rural Devon village.

There is clearly a thirst to better understand more about our energy supply and future options. But evenings like that are extremely rare.

Ofgem is well aware that this dearth of knowledge/understanding/skills is detrimental to progress towards Net Zero.
It leaves the public open to miss-selling, poorly specified systems and hidden costs.
It acts as a brake on the uptake of new technology, and adds to an underlying mistrust of the energy sector.

Heat pump sales tactics aren't dissimilar to the early days of the double-glazing boom.
We'd like to believe what we're being told, but there's a nagging doubt that we're going to be ripped off in some way.

There are funding grants available to anyone who can propose solutions to overcome this deficiency.

But at heart, we really do need to be having more open conversations on energy matters with our friends and neighbours.

I have finally (with the help of the Daikin Rep) managed to access the Daikin site and along with new credentials, registered my system. I then went on to register for my free 5 year parts warranty then looked for the service contract. I was unable to find anything other than the one year Silver, Bronze and Gold offerings - no mention of how to apply for the ten year contracts at all. At this stage, I backed out of applying for the one year and contacted the rep again - he told me that the ten year agreement was discontinued on 1st April 2023. :-((( I did then write back and explain that I had been struggling to apply for the service contract since February, but I am not holding my breath!

It has occurred to me that the 12 month service contract may not actually be needed until I am coming up to the end of the first year anyway - opinions please? Regards, Toodles.

@toodles wow!  I’m surprised. It was a key differentiator for Daikin for me. 
How much is the 12 months?

@julianc so you can compare

£388.80 per year at mitsu,

Heat Pump Service
Cylinder Service
All Parts & Labour
Rapid Response
Smart Device Control

Any call out is charged at £50 payable in advance but beyond that all labour charges
and spare parts are provided within the cost of the premium paid. We will endeavour to
respond to all call outs within 24 hours. Should a call out prove to be a user error we
reserve the right to charge the appropriate labour rate for the time incurred.

LES.MITSUBISHIELECTRIC.CO.UK "https://les.mitsubishielectric.co.uk/assets/Uploads/cbce9e3316/MELSMART-SERV-MAINT-HOMEOWNER.pdf"

@dandee that’s good. Will it go up per year or fixed? My Daikin is £264 per year, 10 years. Service plus parts labour and call out. Excludes my Mixergy cylinder

@julianc On the Daikin site they offer Gold for £345 per year inc. VAT. Still not sure whether I need to apply now or when the first 12 months are coming to an end though. Regards, Toodles.

@toodles Arh ok. So the rate has gone up. You might not need Gold - Silver is ok according to my Daikin service engineer, but when I came to change, Silver was more expensive than my fixed price Gold, so I left as is. You can take out the plan at any time as they will honour for the year and the service can occur after the year (due to scheduling conflicts).

@fazel Does that "all parts and labour" extend to full replacement of an ASHP if deemed necessary by Mitsubishi even at 10 years old, or would that be excluded on grounds of fair wear and tear?