[Solved] Help needed with Grant Aerona 3 issues
Hi all,
I am new to the world of heat pumps, having recently moved into a house that has an ASHP installed, and this forum has been providing me with a wealth of insights as I've been trying to learn more about the system, and diagnose some issues. I'm now at the point where I think I've done all I can on my own, so would love to draw on the expertise here - apologies for the long post!
We moved in at the end of October - it was initially mild, and then we experienced a cold snap. I decided to book a service in as soon as I could, partly to make sure the system was setup adequately for the winter and also to help answer some questions I had. I decided not to use the company who had installed it (as the previous owners had been doing), and looked for a local firm listed on Grant's website that also had seemingly good reviews. I had the service done on Dec 17th, and unfortunately the person who came was about as useful as a chocolate teapot - he seemed flummoxed by the fact that our system was "different to how we install them", kept contradicting himself, wasn't listening to what I was trying to tell him and was treating me as if I was stupid. So that is what has lead me to trying to get to the bottom of things myself.
I'll start by outlining our system, and then go through what I think the issues are/what I've discovered so far:
- We have a 4 bedroom house (built in 1996), with a Grant Aerona 3 17kW heat pump installed which replaced a previous oil fired boiler. We have radiators throughout the house, a mixture of K1/K2/K3s. We have a Salus thermostat in our hallway, which has programmable heating and hot water schedules. We've got it set to 18 degrees during the day, and dropping down to 16 at night. The last few days we're lucky if it hits 18 by 2pm. Unfortunately I don't have any info on what calcs were used when the system was spec'd, I just have an uncompleted commissioning document which is not very helpful!
- The first thing I noticed was that not all of the radiators feel as hot to the touch as each other, with the K1s feeling warm across the whole of the front panel and the K3s often not feeling that warm, or only slightly warm at the top or the panel and cold at the bottom (and by cold I mean it feels as if no hot water is reaching it). Not sure if this is normal or not. I also noticed during the cold snap that the radiators didn't seem to feel as warm as they did when it was warmer outside. I mentioned this during the service, and the person who did it reset all of the inlet valves to the same level. I've since tried to open some of the valves a bit more on the colder rads and I don't think it's made a noticeable difference.
- When we'd been in the house about a week, I noticed that the system was calling for heat, but the heat pump wasn't on. I then went to the controller and saw a red light flashing and an error code (A1) being displayed. I then looked at the instructions that had been left for us by the previous owners, and they had highlighted that they had been told to expect this by the company who installed/serviced it. They had suggested that we press some buttons on the controller to reset the system, which then made it start working again. This happened about once a week for a few weeks, then didn't happen for a couple of weeks, then there was a period of it happening every day for a few days. I explained what had been happening to the person who did the service, and he wasn't really listening, but just suggested it might be due to the filters needing cleaning. Before he left he said he was confident that was what was causing the issue and that it "should be fine now" (I wasn't convinced). After that we saw the error code more than we ever had in the next few days. As I write this, it's settled down a bit, having shown the error code yesterday for the first time in three/four days.
- Over the last couple of days, I have read the manual for the heat pump, and multiple forum posts/other articles online as I was convinced the system is not performing as it should be, and I wondered if something was off with the WC settings. Here is what the parameters are set to:
- 2100: 1
- 2102: 52
- 2103: 40
- 2104: 5
- 2105: 20
It surprised me to see the middle three values being set to so much higher than the defaults. So I then looked at what the return and flow temperatures were showing as, and I'm getting readings in the region of 30 for return temp and between 30 and 35 for flow temperature. I've checked a few times now in the last 24 hours and haven't seen a flow temp higher than 35. It seems this is where the issue lies? And also suggests that the A1 error code is actually indicating that something is wrong, rather than something to be ignored.
If you have got this far, thank you for reading. I am a bit stuck as to what to do next, so would love to hear your advice/suggestions.
Thanks!
I forgot to add - when I was taking the flow/return temperature measurements, the outside temperature was reading at 6 degrees.
Welcome to the forum and hopefully we can help. Im not a Grant expert but will try to offer general advice, but first a couple of questions/comments
1. Exactly which Grant model is it? Im particularly interested if its R32 or R290?
2. You need a copy of the installation and servicing manual for your machine, which will be on the Grant website, so you can tell what the fault codes mean.
3. Is there a buffer tank/low loss header between the heat pump and emitters? If there is a picture would help
4. When you are measuring flow/return , where are you taking the measurements.
Given what you say about the house its unlikely the heat pump is too small. We need to get to the bottom of what the error is before going much further (hence question 1); If its the R32 machine then error A1 indicates a refrigerant gas fault which would need to be fixed first and would be consistent with it failing to reach temperature (and also likely very higg power consumption).
Once we have the error under control then we can look to the WC curve and operating mode. You are right to think that the WC parameters dont make sense 52@5 means that it will never go above 52. If it needs to be 52 @ 5 then at (say) 0 it will need to be higher. Heat pumps are generally best operated 24x7 with thermostats and TRVs set to well above the desired temperature (so they have no effect) and the weather compensation curve adjusted (and if necessary rads balanced) to get the right house temperature.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa thanks for your reply.
It's an R32, exact model is HPID17R32. My reading of the manual is that the error could either be because of a sensor issue, or a refrigerant issue. The person who came to do the service did comment that there was plenty of refrigerant in the system, if that helps (I don't believe he topped it up during the service).
The measurements are what is shown on the control panel - I'm entering code 0100 to get the return temperature reading and 0109 to get the flow temperature.
I think the answer to your third question is yes, but I'm not confident. I've attached some photos - the first is in the garage (attached to the heat pump) and the second is in the airing cupboard.
The black cylinder in the second photo looks like an llh. Is there a water pump nearby and how many pipes feed it?
You can't ignore the fault whether it's a sensor or an actual fault, either way it needs to be fixed. That said if it has gone and is not recurring then maybe just maybe it's an artefact. I had similar artefacts with my Vaillant all of which vanished once filters were cleared.
The salus, being a smart thermostat, is potentially causing a problem so I would turn the set temperature on it up to say 30C to eliminate this possibility. Then check flow and return temp when you know the heat pump is actually running. Also check what the heat pump thinks oat is. If these don't correspond to the wc curve then it suggests the a1 error is real. If they do correspond to the WC curve then it suggests that the salus needs to be permanently disabled (which is anyway the likely next step).
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa the readings I have taken so far have been when the heat pump is running (and had been running constantly for multiple hours), so I don't think it's an issue with the thermostat. I'm already at the point where the heat pump is running all day even with the temp set at 18.
When I've taken the readings the controller was showing outdoor temp at 6 degrees, so just one degree higher than the temp at which it should be targeting a flow temp of 52. At the moment I'm not even hitting the minimum target flow temp (which is set to 40 degrees).
Posted by: @fleurcules@jamespa the readings I have taken so far have been when the heat pump is running (and had been running constantly for multiple hours), so I don't think it's an issue with the thermostat. I'm already at the point where the heat pump is running all day even with the temp set at 18
I hear what you say but I would still perform the experiment it to be absolutely certain. Some thermostats, which should never be used with heat pumps, try to modulate the output by switching on and off periodically as the temp approaches the set temp.
If you turn the thermostat up to 30 and the heat pump doesn't reach the required ft according to the WC curve then you know there is highly likely a problem with the heat pump which needs to be fixed before anything else can be done.
Incidentally if you are successfully heating hot water (you don't say) then it's much less likely to be a problem with the heat pump in which case checking for certain by eliminating any effect of the thermostat is a must if you are to move forward.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa we are not successfully heating hot water either. We thought we were, but have now realised that was only because the immersion was set to come on multiple times per week (which we have now adjusted down). Will try turning the thermostat up in any case.
Sorry missed your question re: water pump, have attached a photo.
Posted by: @fleurculeswe are not successfully heating hot water either. We thought we were, but have now realised that was only because the immersion was set to come on multiple times per week (which we have now adjusted down). Will try turning the thermostat up in any case.
Ok please post back once experiment complete. Give it a couple of hours to be sure.
Posted by: @fleurculesSorry missed your question re: water pump, have attached a photo.
Ok looks like you have an llh which makes fault diagnosis more difficult unfortunately, but doesn't affect the need to do the thermostat test and conclusions it will hopefully lead to.
Record exactly what you do and observe, including any errors, so you can use it with Grant if a repair is needed.
If it doesnt reach temperature then the strong indications are its a heat pump fault, probably linked to the A1 fault code. However you should first check that 'night mode' isn't enabled. Assuming night mode isn't enabled then, to be absolutely certain, you could set the heat pump to run at a fixed flow temperature of say 50C (leaving the thermostat turned up), by setting 2100 to 0 and 2101 to 50 (or just leave it at the default of 45) and see what happens. If it fails to reach temp with that setting and night mode isnt enabled, then I would say its more or less no doubt its a repair job.
If a repair is needed the it will need to be done by a proper Grant repair technician not an 'ordinary' installer.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa Ok here's an update on today so far. The heat pump has been on since 6am, I have turned up the thermostat. I've taken multiple readings of the outgoing flow temperature and all have been 34 degrees (OAT at either 5 degrees or just under), apart from during a defrost cycle when it dropped to 29, then quickly got back up to 34 once the defrost cycle was done. I have made sure night mode and low tariff mode are disabled.
As a final step I've now just set it to fixed flow temp mode - temperature was set at 52 but I've lowered to 45. No increase from 34 yet but I'll check back in a bit.
Posted by: @fleurcules@jamespa Ok here's an update on today so far. The heat pump has been on since 6am, I have turned up the thermostat. I've taken multiple readings of the outgoing flow temperature and all have been 34 degrees (OAT at either 5 degrees or just under), apart from during a defrost cycle when it dropped to 29, then quickly got back up to 34 once the defrost cycle was done. I have made sure night mode and low tariff mode are disabled.
As a final step I've now just set it to fixed flow temp mode - temperature was set at 52 but I've lowered to 45. No increase from 34 yet but I'll check back in a bit.
Thats getting pretty convincing. Remember also to check that Night Mode isn't in operation.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa yep mentioned in my previous message I've disabled night mode.
It was sitting at 35 for a bit, now up to 36. Although oddly the rads have just gone from feeling about as warm as they ever do to feeling noticeably colder.
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