Joining the Renewable Heating Hub forums is completely free and only takes a minute. By registering you’ll be able to ask questions, join discussions, follow topics you’re interested in, bookmark useful threads and receive notifications when someone replies. Non-registered members also do not have access to our AI features. When choosing your username, please note that it cannot be changed later, so we recommend avoiding brand or product names. Before registering, please take a moment to read the Forum Rules & Terms of Use so we can keep the community helpful, respectful and informative for everyone. Thanks for joining!
Heat Geek Zero Disrupt: Are We Sleepwalking Into Another Race to the Bottom?
@Editor is correct. Under MCS, installers are required to provide a flow temperate and an ESTIMATED SCOP as part of the survey. However,……
A key difference here is that the Heat Geek SCOP is not estimated - it is a minimum performance guarantee. The actual installation design work is done by Heat Geek HQ after it has received the survey results and the customer’s selection of one of three performance options. One of the outcomes of the design work is the calculation of the system’s maximum flow temperature. This is the reason why there is no flow temperature in the survey, and why it appears along with the SCOP on the MCS Certificate. This may be complete rubbish but it is what my research is suggesting.
Space and HW heating calculations appear both in the survey and on the MCS Certificate.
In principal I agree with most of what you say, most particularly the bit about the nature of the guarantee being key. However there is one possible (but key) exception/subtly to my agreement:
There are two possible and legitimate scenarios where it might not be possible, or at least where there is an understandable and arguably legitimate reluctance, to provide a specified flow temperature etc namely:
1) the design is done by a demonstrably good tool that does not reveal its inner workings (AI/machine learning)
2) the design has a degree of uncertainty, or even risk, associated with it
I suspect that #1 applies in many cases, including Heat Geeks. Number 2 definitely applies to all heat pump installations. Of course #2 is only truly acceptable from a customer point of view if the supplier is prepared to cover that risk/uncertainty by means of a guarantee, making retrospective changes if necessary. Note that most installers, and the MCS rules instead deal with this risk by insisting on specifying lots of design detail, ie transferring the risk to the customer!
There is a third possible scenario which may also apply namely
3) the design may risk violating one or more arbitrary rules imposed by MCS notwithstanding the satisfactory performance, and providing design details would reveal that thus 'incriminating' the supplier.
Im not saying that this scenario exists in Heat Geek's case, but it very likely did with my (successful) installation.
Finally there are possibly commercial reasons. At present HG has a commercial advantage with intelligence it has gained from monitoring its past installations. This allows it to 'trim' specifications (and thus its own costs) whilst offering a performance guarantee. That commercial advantage is diluted if it reveals too much detail.
Any or all of the above may explain a reluctance to provide the design detail which the customer shouldn't need.
Im should be clear that I am neither defending nor attacking Heat Geek, just looking at it another way! I personally think we should be spending time understanding (and critiquing, albeit with a realistic hat on) the nature of the guarantee rather than worrying too much about design detail.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
Currently viewing this topic 4 users ( Majordennisbloodnok, L8Again, Mars, JamesPa ) and 33 guests.
- 27 Forums
- 2,786 Topics
- 65.7 K Posts
- 2,407 Online
- 7,190 Members
Join Us!
Installer Finder
Degrees of Separation
Latest Posts
-
RE: Heat Geek Zero Disrupt: Are We Sleepwalking Into Another Race to the Bottom?
@editor In principal I agree with most of what you s...
By JamesPa , 36 minutes ago
-
RE: Air-to-Air Heat Pumps & Air Conditioning: UK Heating and Cooling Q&A
Our latest Homeowners’ Q&A episode has just dropped...
By Mars , 44 minutes ago
-
RE: Vaillant ecoTEC Plus with sensoCOMFORT and weather compensation
Yes, its described in the sensocomfort manual. Its als...
By JamesPa , 1 hour ago
-
RE: Heat Geek installations: share your experiences
My summary, highlighting the oddities.
By Batpred , 3 hours ago
-
RE: Missing flow temperature in Heat Geek proposal
That makes sense, even if few people would have a highe...
By Batpred , 3 hours ago
-
RE: Renewable Heating Hub Homeowners' Q&A Podcast
What a day yesterday! Two podcasts recorded, brilliant ...
By Mars , 23 hours ago
-
RE: Tesla Powerwall (2) Calibration Cycles
@davesoa I’m rather a Luddite, but when I was running I...
By Papahuhu , 24 hours ago
-
RE: Adding additional Solar Panels to a DC coupled battery system
I too use AI when researching online. It's able to co...
By Transparent , 1 day ago
-
RE: Getting closer to a finished Haier system
Theres comprehensive instalation and service manuals (I...
By Singlespeed , 2 days ago
-
RE: Indevolt Batteries UK Support & Info Thread
There is now a new Secretary of State for Energy Securi...
By Transparent , 2 days ago
-
RE: Do I add Air Con or MVHR to existing A2W ASHP?
@rob-of-york Looks like an impressive bit of kit. Just ...
By Batpred , 2 days ago
-
RE: DIY Heat Pump Installations: Navigating Legal and Regulatory Hurdles
The idealist in me says pioneers in this space should b...
By Batpred , 2 days ago
-
RE: How should the Boiler Upgrade Scheme be reformed?
Ah, that makes sense when a combi is in place. The boil...
By Batpred , 3 days ago
-
RE: Replacing Storage Heaters with a Heat Pump in a Stone Cottage
@bobflux Thanks, that gives me something to check the i...
By Paul1098 , 3 days ago
-
Over the years, due to the non barrier PEX underfloor h...
By bobflux , 4 days ago



