Posted by: @toodles

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@majordennisbloodnok Just for clarity; Tesla app works with iCloud and / or mobile phone direct to the clients wifi. I have checked from time to time that the mobile connection will stand up should the iCloud not be available. Regards, Toodles.

Thanks, @toodles, but that's not quite what I meant.

If (unlikely I know) Tesla were to go bust and their services were to be turned off immediately, would you still have a means of making scheduling or configuration changes to your Powerwall? If (more likely than the previous scenario) Tesla were to suddenly decide to make all app use chargeable, would you have any way of talking directly to the Powerwall and sticking two fingers up at the financial charge? It's my understanding that there are Tesla installations where the answer to these two questions would be "no", but I have no idea if yours is one of them.

1. @majordennisbloodnok My understanding is that it is ‘purely local’ phone to app - but you have a point - I just hope you may be wrong - but I can’t state you are! Toodles.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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If not, it may just be throwing good money after bad.

Agreed.  And that's why I am proposing a ring fencing of the cloud support activity which should help to prevent subscription income from being used for other costs.  This is quite normal in project financing (my former business activity) where banks lending to a new project insist on tying down the revenues legally to make sure they aren't spent on  other projects.  No guarantees of course - they may not be able to run the cloud business on the income raised.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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If I'm right, then for better or worse that is a constraint which GE have to accept.

I'm sure they realise this but it's of no help if they go bust, which they certainly will if everyone starts demanding their legal rights.

Posted by: @downfield

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 If GE fails it is possible that a 3rd party will step in - but I can't imagine them offering cloud support for free, so owners would be in the same position of needing to pay after a suffering a great deal of disruption.

It is possible of course that GE could go in to administration, that the software assets (real and customer base) be bought out, and subsequently for GE (Software) Ltd (for example) to rise from the ashes as a phoenix company. 

This relieves that company of any contractual obligation to supply cloud services at no cost, and the customer base can then be effectively held to ransom.

As has been said elsewhere, the threat of legal action may only serve to pre-empt that administration, and we all lose.

It may actually be in our individual and collective interests to keep GE (in whatever form) alive through the payment of nominal service charges.  I suggested £2/month when replying to the infamous email (50k potential subscribers indicates up to £100k/month income, surely enough to support a small team). 

Just my thoughts having read thee various discussions...

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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If I'm right, then for better or worse that is a constraint which GE have to accept.

 

 

I'm sure they realise this but it's of no help if they go bust, which they certainly will if everyone starts demanding their legal rights.

This is the heart of it, I think. You couch it as a choice, but a legal obligation is not a choice; GE have to comply. The customers do, of course, have a choice but it’ll only work if everyone chooses the same way.

On a personal basis I’ve bought an Android tablet and have installed the inverter monitor/control app. It gives local control of a GE inverter/battery combination. I’ve started to learn about what can be done without GE cloud. 
Andrew (the author) has a good website which is extremely helpful https://givenergymonitor.wixsite.com/tutorials/tariffs#cosy  

There are other brands Sig, and Tesla that are closed systems but they might stay around for longer. If we ever needed a replacement system with what I know now it will be an open system.

But while our GE system is still running (and it has been great 99%of the time) then I see no reason to not keep running it my way. 

@judith I’ve gone down the bbcbasic app for iPhone and also Giv TCP with Home-Assistant.  Belt and braces, I hope…..

Unfortunately their demise is starting to look official: https://caseboard.io/cases/3bce5889-8fa9-4961-804f-a9a407993ef3

It remains to be seen what will happen - they have several different branches (i.e. as well as GivEnergy Ltd, there are several other variants listed on Companies House).  My guess is that the UK hardware business is being allowed to collapse, and it will be bought for a song, or a smaller phoenix company will rise from the ashes - in both cases minus the warranty liabilities.  One of these, or perhaps the existing GivEnergy Software Ltd could keep the software/support side going (perhaps on the freemium model they have been so inexpertly proposing).  This is all speculation on my part.

Practically, though, there are absolutely ways to gain local control, usually via Home Assistant with GivTCP and Predbat.

The potentially stickier hurdle I could envisage (and this very much depends on what happens next, and the attitude of the director) is whether access will be opened up on the installation and commissioning side.  Currently if you want to change your hardware setup (e.g. add or swap out a battery), the commissioning all has to go through them.

@josephiah Such a shame, we have only had their system a few months, will the installer take care of the hardware if it goes wrong?  or are we left to rot ?

@josephiah there's no mention on here yet: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11571089  

@dean-royston

there appears to be several

I've just been made aware of this:

https://caseboard.io/cases/3bce5889-8fa9-4961-804f-a9a407993ef3

I wonder if it is just an attempt to save themselves from liquidation, or a grim sign of what the future may bring.

Oops, saw the reply from Josephiah

I am unable to delete my post, but will leave it here for the photos. The question still remains, if it is an attempt at staying alive, or actually shutting down.