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Volumiser placement in Vaillant Arotherm + system?

 
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by KenBone 2 years ago
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 Rob K
(@rob-k)
New Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter 22/08/2023 9:39 pm   [#1052]

Hi guys,

I had a Vaillant Arotherm + 7KW installed last week and an trying to get some snagging issues resolved with the installer. I posted on a Vaillant Facebook group and got loads of feedback and yes the lagging is getting sorted! One thing people couldn't agree on was whether the volumiser on the right was in the correct place, or necessary at all and I wondered it anyone on here had any opinions?

The installer said it may have been left on from a Daikin schematic, because that pump was poor at defrosting, but this one is better and that they would be happy to remove it when they come to do other snagging jobs on Friday. I thought I would seek advice on here before I made a decision. The volumiser is the white tank on the right and I believe the grey tank is a 20/25L buffer. 

Very happy to have had my pump installed as we have moved from a coal burning multifuel stove, but I am keen to get it as efficient as possible before the installers move on to the next job!

Heat pump is only doing DHW at the moment - 200L tank set at 45C achieving a rough COP of 3.5. Volumiser gets warm to touch.

Best,

Rob

Cylinder install

 



   
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Vaillant aroTherm installation advice cycling
 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
23/08/2023 10:35 am  

It is difficult to identify from a photo what task each vessel is performing, but the ones in question look more like expansion vessels rather than volumiser or buffer tank.

Can you provide a close-up photo of the nameplate on each device?

 



   
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 Rob K
(@rob-k)
New Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter 23/08/2023 2:53 pm  

Hi Derek, 

 

Thanks for taking a look.

IMG 20230823 142140

 This is the one on the right hand side. 

There is no label on the white vessel on the left but it looks to me as if it is probably this:

  https://www.unventedcomponentseurope.com/vaillant-spare-0020009861-18-litre-potable-expansion-vessel.html

IMG 20230823 143557
IMG 20230823 142140

(Ignore the second photo)

The grey one in the middle doesn't have a label but I think I remember seeing a box with 25L buffer vessel written on it somewhere. 

IMG 20230823 143604

Don't know if that helps at all?

Best,

Rob



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
23/08/2023 4:05 pm  

@rob-k

The vessel with the nameplate would appear to be the following, which may be being used to add volume to your system. Is it connected within the pipework from your heat pump.

http://www.spatec.co.uk/shop/viewitem.php?productid=680

The white and grey vessels appear to be expansions vessels for the primary and secondary water systems. Their purpose is to allow expansion and contraction of the water within the systems due to change in temperature. They should both have a nameplate which may be round the back or on top.



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
23/08/2023 4:56 pm  

After having a closer look at your original photo, I think that your system is piped up as follows:-

The pipe coming through the floor furthest on the right would appear to be the flow pipe from your heat pump. This feeds up to the tee where it branches via the horizontal pipe to the electrically operated 3 port valve.

The vertical pipe coming out of the top of the 3 port valve connects to the heating coil within the hot water cylinder. The return pipe from the heating coil connects to a tee near the base of the hot water cylinder.

Pipework from this tee is connected to the bottom connection on the volumiser tank. The top connection on this tank is connected to the return pipe to your heat pump via the filter unit. The outlet from the volumiser tank is also connected to the grey expansion vessel.

The bottom port of the 3 port valve is connected to the flow pipe to the heat emitters and disappears into the floor. The return pipe from the heat emitters connects to the tee feeding back to the heat pump via the volumiser tank.

The mains water supply is via the left most pipe coming through the floor. This feeds into the Pressure Reducing Valve (PRV), after which there is pipework connected to the white expansion vessel and also to the bottom of the hot water cylinder. The pipework feeding out of the hot water cylinder is mounted on the top.

To decide whether to remove the volumiser tank or not, you would need to calculate the volume of water within your heating system, and confirm that this volume is greater than the minimum volume specified in the heat pump manual. Leaving the volumiser in place should not be too detrimental even if it is decided that it is no longer required.



   
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 Rob K
(@rob-k)
New Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter 24/08/2023 3:25 pm  

Thanks for the run through Derek. So it seems as though it's in the correct position? I think I'll leave it in place and add a bit of insulation around it.



   
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 Rob K
(@rob-k)
New Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter 24/08/2023 4:11 pm  

Had a look a the min system volume for defrost cycle for the Arotherm 7kw and it's 55L. I believe our heating system is over 130L so it does seem as if the volumiser is over kill.



   
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 Wobby1
(@wobby1)
Active Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
12/02/2024 2:01 pm  

@rob-k 

I know it’s a while ago, but Derek is right all is piped as he say, and is OK. A bit of insulation on the pipes wouldn’t go amiss though. 



   
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 Rob K
(@rob-k)
New Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 5
Topic starter 12/02/2024 2:13 pm  

@wobby1 thanks for this - yes his advice was reassuring and system is working very well. I was a bit worried after loads of people had pointed out issues with the install on a Facebook group so I thought I would double check on here. Piping has all been lagged now too.



   
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 Wobby1
(@wobby1)
Active Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
12/02/2024 3:09 pm  

@rob-k 

You’re very welcome and it’s really good to know it’s all working well. Just shows that when heat pumps are installed correctly they do work and work well. 
regards 



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
12/02/2024 3:36 pm  

Posted by: @rob-k
↑

@wobby1 thanks for this - yes his advice was reassuring and system is working very well. I was a bit worried after loads of people had pointed out issues with the install on a Facebook group so I thought I would double check on here. Piping has all been lagged now too.

I do believe that the 'knowledge' level on facebook can be a dangerous thing. 😋 

 



   
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 KenBone
(@kenbone)
Trusted Member Member Professional Installer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 49
14/03/2024 9:57 pm  

The bypass is not installed correctly, as it should incorporate the volumizer, which it doesn't.



   
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