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British Gas versus Octopus: Two possible heat pump routes - how to evaluate them?

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Judith 2 years ago
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 17/07/2024 11:12 am  

@dougmlancs I haven't had any further communication from 🐙 so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row before approaching them because I only want to do it once.

I need the temperatures of rooms increasing - bedrooms designed as offices and a square central hallway that is also a well-used room - as well as overall heat loss calcs that relate to my previous gas use and my patchy insulation.

There's a risk with 🐙 that they cherry pick and although I'm a super easy install as my big cellar means no floors have to come up for pipework they appear to be trying to keep costs down - eg 50º design = less rad changes (I got that from 🐙 staff) - previously, more complex installs than mine were a lot cheaper.

Thus I don't want them to say 'sorry no can do' because that may push me back to gas.

BG want over a £1400 more for a 6kw installation but at least they gave me the option of 4kw or 6kw. I have to also sort my own bathroom radiator for both 🐙 & BG which is fine (design matters for me) but it bumps up the cost. 

I've now read MIS 3005 and it's not as rigid as installers try to make out. I want the cheapest possible running costs and I want to be warm and I don't subscribe to 'bigger is better' but not sure 4kw can hack the pace at low flow temperatures.

It shouldn't be this tricky but I'm seriously not impressed by their awful Cosy - apart from anything else, watch that top sloping grid get full of crap. 🙀



   
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Mars
 Mars
(@editor)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4474
18/07/2024 8:13 am  

@lucia did you also approach any Heat Geeks?


This post was modified 2 years ago by Mars

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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2694
18/07/2024 9:19 am  

@lucia That’s OK, don’t you put the bin out for the refuse collection once a week / fortnight?😉


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Topic starter 18/07/2024 9:30 am  

@editor I can't afford to lose £350 on a survey plus their installation charges are a lot higher and there's not enough installers in the south west. 

If I do their 'online quote' it comes up with the same nonsense calculations based on the same presuppositions. Thus if they recalculated the heat loss based on the realities the 'quote' would be even higher.



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Topic starter 18/07/2024 5:56 pm  

Ok... things have changed since this morning. I've 'met someone' ... 😁

Who has a similar opinion of MCS guidelines as me. 

I realised that it would be better if I could find an independent installer's opinion but Heat Geek assessments are out of my financial reach. That's the price of a radiator or two. 

I contacted an installer in the deep sw wilds (like me) that I found from someone's installation on Heat Pump Monitor (yes, I click on all the little boxes 😂). But I didn't hear anything for a few weeks. He just phoned me. I told him my sorry saga including the patience of people here trying to teach me about Delta T's so I could (try to) figure things out for myself. 

He's Heat Geek registered and trained but he's done more than that. It turns out he doesn't use MCS software or assumptions. Quite the opposite - he's not impressed with any of it.  He designed his own software during lockdown precisely so it can be tweaked to function however it's needed. ✊🏻

So watch this space... he's coming over at the end of next week - He fits Mitsis and Daikins amongst others so I hope I can afford him because I think we're on the same page. Yay! 🤞🏻



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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18/07/2024 6:08 pm  

@lucia 😊 Toodles


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Anonymous 5011
(@Anonymous 5011)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 562
18/07/2024 6:44 pm  

Posted by: @lucia
↑

at the end of next week - He fits Mitsis and Daikins amongst others so I hope I can afford him

I personally think the whole MCS thing is a get rich quick for most installations. The costs aren't huge especially if it's just a few radiators to install, heat and cylinder.

 

Daikin or better a Panasonic monobloc is about £2k from City Plumbing, £800 to £1k for a cylinder. Yet the bill comes to £7500 plus a few £k - where does the money go?



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 18/07/2024 7:23 pm  

@johnmo A Daikin EDLA04EV3 which is the starter of what Octopus fit is £3000+ in City Plumbing. Of course, Octopus have lots of clout so will have negotiated a knock down deal but apart from the pump & tank I think a lot goes on labour. Octopus have 3 or 4 staff on site for days. 

For a small local company without the buying power it's probably labour and training and insurance.

There are of course a bunch of hustlers too but that, sadly, is inevitable. It all needs demystifying. 



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Topic starter 18/07/2024 7:24 pm  

@toodles 😁



   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
20/07/2024 11:39 am  

Having responded to BG on a few points (buffer!) I now have an Octopus survey at the end of the month. It will be interesting to see how they respond to running the pipes and power under the path. To me that is the only slightly difficult bit of the installation. Having just reread this thread it has been invaluable help and I'm most grateful to all the respondents.


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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 Broadsman
(@broadsman)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 76
22/07/2024 9:24 am  

I think I have read somewhere that the British Gas chief heat pump designer does not use buffers in his systems.



   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
22/07/2024 11:47 am  

@broadsman Unfortunately this does not seem to have trickled down to the surveyor who still added one to my quote even though I mentioned I did not want one.


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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