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British Gas versus Octopus: Two possible heat pump routes - how to evaluate them?

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Judith 2 years ago
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 11/07/2024 6:32 pm  

@jancold oof.... My assessor guy did say there's 'shake ups' in the dept...lol!

However he was quite proud to say they're totally in-house with system designers and installers (unlike those outsourced gas boiler installers) and they seem to have a quite good reputation. 



   
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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
11/07/2024 7:34 pm  

@lucia Well you could go with whoever to install your heat pump just switch to an octopus tariff and they will removed the gas meter for free!

Octopus are not part of British Gas, perhaps you should put him right 🤣 


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
11/07/2024 8:21 pm  

@lucia Interesting we will see what happens tomorrow. I'm with Octopus already so no problems there. If I'm not convinced I'll get my rads upgraded (possibly by myself) and invite my  heating engineer to fit me a new gas boiler. However I still have UltimateRenewables to chase. 


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 11/07/2024 8:44 pm  

@jancold BG's quote for me is over £1000 higher than Octopus - without counting that Octopus will remove my gas connection and cap it off for free and their maintenance contract is the cheapest you can get. Plus their quote is fixed whereas BG stick radiator changes on as 'extras' but BG are offering a slightly larger pump.

They are both offering Daikins but I'm still haggling with Octopus over size - their offer is borderline and they are at least listening to me although it may not achieve everything I want. We'll see 

What I don't want is to continue with gas - and if I was forced to it would be for a running repair on my antique condensing boiler knowing that it's on its last legs.

I hope your BG heat loss assessment goes well tomorrow. 



   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
12/07/2024 8:21 am  

@lucia Thank you. I just thought to try Octopus again and they did quote me with the proviso it would be several months to the survey. However their initial quote is less than half of the British Gas! Obviously they now have installers in the South West. So this raises a dilemma how long do I wait with an ailing boiler?


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2727
12/07/2024 8:58 am  

@jancold I was in the same position regarding the aging boiler; it had had a gas regulator replaced but was showing signs of the replacement controller going the same way. It lasted out the year it took to research further and then decide on having an ASHP installed. I took that chance but we did have the option of an immersion heater in the DHW tank and a gas fire, had the odour hit the air movement device. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
12/07/2024 9:32 am  

@toodles Last year I was given the remnants of my daughters oil tank which turned out to be 100l . So to augment my boiler running at it's low temp I ran an Eberspacher a hot air heat mainly used in boats and campervans as a top up. Now my Kero is running low and the boiler expansion vessel has either lost pressure or holed. It will probably keep going for DHW but central heating may be too much for it.


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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Jancold
 Jancold
(@jancold)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 171
12/07/2024 9:34 am  

@lucia How long was it before Octopus gave you a survey date? was it months?  Since I see we are both in the SW maybe not so long. Also I see on my BG telephone survey radiator changes are included in the quote but we will see this afternoon.


Daikin 6Kw ASHP.
MG4 EV, Solis 8KW inverter, 32KWh battery
1926 Semi with loft and wall cavity insulation, all radiator.


   
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 GunboatDiplomat
(@gunboatdiplomat)
Trusted Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 40
12/07/2024 10:20 am  

@jancold my survey was about 4 weeks after paying the deposit - I'm in Essex. I was told it was more like 12 weeks wait on the phone. Not sure if I got lucky as my surveyor was moving house and therefore was being allocated jobs on my area that would have otherwise waited.



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2727
12/07/2024 10:25 am  

@jancold Then you are looking for an ASHP installation by November I should imagine? Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 12/07/2024 11:03 am  

@jancold I was told by sales it would be a long wait but it came through pretty quickly. I only waited about 3 weeks. 

Install is proposed for October worst ways but they said it can come through any time before then as jobs get re-arranged, take less time or get cancelled.

My boiler is also on its last legs but I'll hang in there because I need to get this right in terms of system design. 



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 12/07/2024 12:45 pm  

Help! 😵‍💫

I now have 2 MCS calcs @ 45º flow temp how do I plot a compromise between the two? 

1: Fully insulated cavity wall - BG identical to Octopus calc = 4kw Daikin & only 2 radiator changes from 11s > 22s in living room (it's a bit odd they are the same because Octopus designed @ 50º) all other 11s to remain in place. Bathroom to be tackled by me with 2 panel designer rad. Heat loss calc 4.5
[Octopus strangely ignore the towel rail) 

2:  BG No insulation in cavity wall = 6kw heat pump and changes of all rads from 11s > 22s + Bathroom to be tackled by me with 2 panel designer rad. Heat loss calc 5.6 

Reality - half insulated cavity wall! 

Question:What would you do?  Number 1 or 2? OR can I find a compromise between them - 4Kw heat pump but more rad upgrades perhaps? Is that even likely to make the house warmer? 

My annual heating gas + hw/ shower use for entire house last time I heated it was approx 16277 kwh @22º heating (except summer of course) 

I really need to get my ducks in a row before discussing it with either BG or Octopus. I will try and play with Heat Punk again @ the weekend but I think I'm not grasping the emitters/pump size relational theory - can extra radiator acreage really increase heat if there's not enough Kws in the pump? 



   
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