@weoleyric Is this any good to you,

Before you start, make sure your heat pump is compatible for the Homely

Much appreciated, @potatoman. Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: @grahaml

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On my install, my DHW 2-port valve is wired where the “3-port diverter valve” is shown on the Homely schematic, and my single heating 2-port valve is wired per “2 port valve Zone 1” on the schematic. So, I assume, you would need to do the same, but also wire the zone 2 valve per the Homely schematic. I used a single run of 5- or 6-core flex for my valves, can’t remember which, but you’d need more cores (or cables) than that.

 

I also took Cat 5 from the heat pump back to where my wiring centre and Homely are installed, using one pair for modbus to the Homely and one pair for the tank temperature sensor. You don’t need to use the “official” Grant sensor btw, you can get a 5-pack of the correct type from Amazon for less than Grant charge for a single sensor (or I can post you one as I now have 4 spare!)

 

Thanks for confirming you connected your 2 port valve to the "3-port diverter" on the Homely schematic. That was the bit I was worried about! I appreciate your offer of a tank sensor, but I have one on my existing set up connected to the separate Grant tank thermostat. I will re route this directly to the ASHP for Homely.

I really appreciate your help with this topic. I will run my plan past my installer (not sure if he is interested in Homely) and work towards setting up Homely and report back. 

@weoleyric do you have a buffer  tank in you system?

@potatoman I believe I do, yes. I must admit, I'm not 100% sure what the buffer tank is there for?

If you have a buffer tank you will have a post buffer tank pump, when I had my Homely fitted I had to rearrange the electrics  for this as it was wired via 3rd party controls which got removed so now it is operated with the heat pump.

@potatoman Our Homely also controls the secondary (Wilo Pico) pump that is positioned post LLH flow output. In fact, I had to wait for Evergreen to incorporate this feature into the Homely controller before the unit was fitted. Homely takes care of the ‘overrun time’ for the secondary pump so there is a sequence at start up and stopping times all controlled by Homely. Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @weoleyric

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I must admit, I'm not 100% sure what the buffer tank is there for?

Cynically I would suggest its there to protect the installer and cost you money unnecessarily (both at install time and in running costs). 

The smart money these days is on the conclusion that buffer tanks are almost always unnecessary in domestic circumstances (and usually detrimental), to the extent that those who still advocate and fit buffer tanks have refused to appear on the two podcasts that @mars has run about the subject. 

In fairness this conclusion appears to have 'emerged' over the past few years, so some excuses for past installer sins (provided that they are admitted) can reasonably be accepted.

For the avoidance of doubt a 2 port volumiser in either the return or flow is OK.

Regarding the homely data access issue (or not being able to access it without going via the back door, so to speak) I contacted Homely last year about this and asked if there were any plans to expand the app. Their response was pretty positive, as follows:

We appreciate your input on the app features. Providing historical data, like maximum flow temperature and COP, is something we're actively working on, and your feedback aligns with our development goals. We aim to make the app as intuitive and functional as possible while maintaining system efficiency. 

I thought I'd follow this up a few days ago to see whether this was still on the horizon, and they replied today confirming the following:

At Homely, we do not provide heat pump performance data to customers. The information we gather is for the use of installers to diagnose potential issues with your heating and hot water operation and as such requires a specialist understanding.

Really disappointing 🙁

Posted by: @benson

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I thought I'd follow this up a few days ago to see whether this was still on the horizon, and they replied today confirming the following:

At Homely, we do not provide heat pump performance data to customers. The information we gather is for the use of installers to diagnose potential issues with your heating and hot water operation and as such requires a specialist understanding.

Really disappointing 🙁

 

I must admit that really surprised me.

I'm well aware there are several forum members here who have found Homely to be a workable and useful tool for fine tuning their heat pump installation so I'll admit I thought twice before posting anything critical but that response appears to me to be rather condescending. I can understand withholding information about electronic kit that might encourage people to dig about with screwdrivers in amongst some scary capacitors and hurt themselves but heat pump performance data poses no personal risk at all. The only reason for not disclosing it seems at face value to be as a means of keeping the ignorant ignorant and therefore reliant on a third party.

Personally, if I was in the business of improving the efficiency of people's kit I'd be falling over myself to provide evidence of just how good a job I was doing. Moreover, since the heat pump's manufacturer probably does (albeit possibly in a less than ideal format) provide exactly the same performance data through their apps and portals it's a bit of a stretch from Homely to suggest the data "shouldn't" be shared with the customer.

My interpretation of the situation isn't rosy. I'm ready to be convinced otherwise but it seems to me that the business model is to avoid letting the customer know what's going on and therefore make it more difficult to evaluate the subscription's benefit objectively over time. Homely may do a valid job but does it do a good enough one to justify the cost? Without data, how can one tell?

I hasten to add, I have no agenda regarding Homely and it may well be doing exactly what people need it to. Unfortunately, however, we're in a time where a truly trustworthy company is distinctly in the minority and I have an issue with any business trying to force me to trust them, especially whilst telling me I can't be trusted with something. Feels a bit too much like marking one's own homework.

@majordennisbloodnok I think I have mentioned this before but, when I suggested to Homely that it would be useful if the information available via the Dashboard were available via the Homely app, they replied to the effect:

The Dashboard provides details for the installer and that were this to be made generally available to the end-user, the installers would likely receive ‘nuisance value’ calls from their customers who failed to understand the technicalities involved. I have pointed out to them that there are some users who might understand the data and not just want to worry their installers at the slightest drop in COP or whatever.

It is indeed a shame that Homely seems to prefer ‘ignorance is bliss’ but I am pleased to say that all my questions to them have been answered fully and without them appearing to talk down to me.

I find the Dashboard information extremely informative and though I am not a heating engineer nor do I have any qualifications in science, physics, electronics or even maths, I am very grateful to have access (even if by the back door so to speak) to this data - I have not had cause to bother my installers  with ‘silly questions’ at any time. Perhaps most readers of RHH forum are likely to be a little keener than some and after reading for sometime will certainly be more enlightened than the average passenger riding on the Clapham Omnibus! Regards, Toodles.

I can quite understand that the lot at Homely treat you well, @toodles, but the mindset that an informed customer is a source of nuisance and pain is to my way of thinking very dangerous and, in itself, demonstrably flawed. If it weren't for the fact that there is a reasonable base of satisfied customers on the forum already, I'd've been much more vocal about my suspicions of their motives.

Nevertheless, we DO have satisfied customers here and that certainly affects the balance. However, if the likes of Havenwise give a similar service AND try to cultivate knowledge amongst their customers then I wonder how well Homely will compete. Only time will tell and I'm interested to watch this space.