I’ve had a lot of recent contact with MCS, and they’ve just pulled out of an upcoming appearance on the Homeowners’ Q&A podcast to discuss MCS 2.0. From what I can gather, reading between the lines, it seems they’ve hit some roadblocks. The indications I’m getting suggest that the revised and refreshed MCS might not be ready until mid-2025.

Posted by: @toodles

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There is an awful lot of arm waving in this presentation and some pretty dodgy camera work but it may interest some readers.

Regards, Toodles.

Sorry I got to 1min 14 seconds and gave up.  Disorganised, self indulgent, amateur cr*p up to that point, nothing to encourage me to listen to another 43 mins worth.  

Did anyone tell them about the importance of the elevator conversation?

Posted by: @editor

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I’ve had a lot of recent contact with MCS, and they’ve just pulled out of an upcoming appearance on the Homeowners’ Q&A podcast to discuss MCS 2.0. From what I can gather, reading between the lines, it seems they’ve hit some roadblocks. The indications I’m getting suggest that the revised and refreshed MCS might not be ready until mid-2025.

Scrap them entirely would be my vote.  Let those in the industry that deliver for their customers rise naturally, and those that rely on MCS to cover their rear ends fail.

Sorry to be blunt but I have been listening on this forum, on buildhub, and in person to householders and installers now for two years and have barely heard a single word in their favour.  If the good installers were actively supporting MCS then I might take a different view, but so far I haven't heard that.

If the good installers listening think MCS is a good thing then I challenge them.to come here and tell us their views. 

@jamespa No, you needed to bear it for another minute or two before anything happened worth listening to. Can’t get the staff…. Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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@jamespa No, you needed to bear it for another minute or two before anything happened worth listening to. Can’t get the staff…. Toodles.

The elevator reached the level at which I had to get out, so I missed my opportunity to impress the CEO.

@jamespa One can become quite adept at the FF button!😉 Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

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One can become quite adept at the FF button!

But in an elevator? 

@cathoderay You have to ‘lift’ your finger off the button a few times for that.😉

Levity aside though (or should that be ‘elevation’ aside?) I think the whole presentation was carried out in a very amateurish fashion and I feel it reflects upon their own perception of ‘good standards’. It is worrying when such a presentation is put on where it is apparent that the panel are more at home goofing about than seriously discussing the problems heat pump owners face when things don’t go to plan during installation producing a sub-standard end product.

I watched the presentation right through and had hoped to hear some sort of resolution or at least agreement that improvement was not just desirable but essential if the general public (who after all really are the people paying their salaries and wages even if the MCS allegiance is to installers paying annual accreditation fees that have come from customers buying into a heat pump installation).

From what Mars has said, MCS don’t appear to have much faith in their own target to improve matters for the end user ‘any time soon’. In the pesentation, the ‘compere’ liked to mention that they (MCS) are a charity and that all proceeds are ploughed back to improve the situation. Am I alone in feeling that I shouldn’t place much faith in improvement to the present ‘SNAFU’ state?

Should it really be necessary for every potential heat pump owner to have time to extensively research the whole subject of heat pump survey, design and installation then stand over the team during installation, then take photos to submit for advice from the likes of RHH forums before they stand any chance of experiencing a good install? 

It seems to me that ‘who guards the guards’ was never more appropriate than where the MCS are concerned.

Regrets, Toodles. 

I had a few quotes and none of them says much about the process of getting the MCS paperwork for the BUS grant and what it involves. 

I am not asking with any expectations that MCS would step in in case of problems, but instead because an installer is asking us to be responsible in case BUS fails.

What visibility of the application process (MCS and BUS) and the related paperwork do the consumers have? 

An update on MCS 2.0... MCS have announced they intend to vet 5,000 heat pump installers by March 2027. That's roughly 18 months from now. 5,000 divided by 18 months is around 278 a month, or about 18 a day, every working day, with no days off! 

I've now heard from an installer who has been through the initial phone assessment as part of this new process. Their description was thorough and detailed and what it essentially amounts to is this: MCS are checking whether the right technology was installed, whether the grant was applied correctly, whether the customer gave consent, whether the handover pack was provided and whether the customer is broadly happy.

Amazing, except none of it assesses whether the installer knows what they're doing. I just know understand why MCS have been tasked with this!

There is no check on whether the heat loss calculation was done correctly. No check on system design. No assessment of flow temps, pipe sizing or emitter output. No verification that the homeowner's running costs are going to be anything like what they were told/sold. Let's be honest, a happy homeowner who doesn't know what good looks like will sail through every single one of those questions with flying colours.

This isn't competence vetting. It's another grant compliance audit with a customer satisfaction survey bolted on. The two things are not even remotely the same.

The quality problem in this industry is not fraud. It's competence! Badly designed systems, wrong-sized units, incorrect flow temps, heat loss calculations done on the back of an envelope or not at all. That's what's destroying homeowner confidence in heat pumps. And MCS 2.0 doesn't touch any of it...