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Two Heat Geeks say that an ASHP for my property will cost £25,000

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by bontwoody 2 years ago
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 Nicholab
(@nicholab)
New Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 4
Topic starter 21/03/2024 8:11 am   [#1444]

Were do you go when two heat geeks say an air source heat pump is not going to work? We had a calculation done and were told we would need to spend £25k to do everything for a heat pump. They also said there was know certainty. This house is just reaching 20 years old and is D band energy efficiency. How do I decarbonise my heating with out getting a second job? We are on oil due to being in the Glens of Antrim. Everyone I speak to is like heat pumps don't work and this seems to have proved them right.


This topic was modified 2 years ago 3 times by Mars

   
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Mars
 Mars
(@editor)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4474
21/03/2024 9:28 am  

Welcome to the forums @nicholab.

Before I comment, could you please provide more details about what the £25,000 quote encompasses? Additionally, do you have the results of a heat loss survey? I'm assuming your current oil boiler is keeping your home adequately warm - could you also share the total size of your home?


This post was modified 2 years ago by Mars

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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
21/03/2024 10:44 am  

@niholab

could you post one of the quotes and your yearly oil use too please. 


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 KenBone
(@kenbone)
Trusted Member Member Professional Installer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 49
21/03/2024 9:37 pm  

Interested to know the details, heat load etc. 



   
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 Nicholab
(@nicholab)
New Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 4
Topic starter 01/04/2024 11:40 am  

I never got full details as they walked away form it due to other more profitable work they were doing for us.

We are using around 1500ltr per of heating oil but that only normally for heating for an 1.5 hours in the morning.  We do have top up times but often use our stove to supplement this with wood and coal.

According to EPC the total floor area is 184m2 using 143 kWh/m2 per year.  We are a C71 on a 2013 EPC in Northern Ireland.



   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
01/04/2024 2:11 pm  

@nicholab According to your oil usage, you are using about 12000 Kw house per year, according to the EPC (which will be woefully inaccurate) you will be using about 28000 Kw hrs per year, assuming it is actually mid-point as you top up with wood, you can expect the heat pump required to heat your house will be in the region of 9-10Kw. Not very big and not difficult to install. Generally a heat pump installation of this size, with replacing all the radiators and cylinder would be in the region of £15000.00, certainly not £25000.00.

I have found that most Heat Geeks, have an inflated sense of superiority, why, I have no idea, the course is online modules, and you work your way from one module to another with no time limits, if you get stuck, they do it for you, effectively tick box theory with very little practical content. I have seen the course, and it really is not that difficult if you are mathematically inclined.

Please do not be put off by them, you actually said it yourself "they walked away form it due to other more profitable work they were doing for us".

A heat pump will work in every installation and every property, it is just the design of the system that matters. PM me if you want some help or someone to look over a quotation for you.



   
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 Nicholab
(@nicholab)
New Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 4
Topic starter 01/04/2024 2:26 pm  

@heacol it seems most heat geeks are keen on heat pumps.  The contract I used said a number of times that someone that they had fitted a heat pump for was to do finding it expensive to run.  I would be embarrassed if I said someone was unhappy with my work.



   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
01/04/2024 2:41 pm  

@nicholab I am not sure I understand what you have said, are you saying that the contract they gave you said it would be expensive to run?

That backs up exactly what I have said, a correctly installed heat pump should be between 30 and 50% cheaper to run than a fossil fuel equivalent, if it is not, there IS a problem with the design or the equipment.

Unfortunately, like in every field, not all equipment is the same, some are exceptionally poor, and others are exceptionally good.

In reality, it is just simple thermodynamics, not difficult or complex, you MUST move sufficient water at the LOWEST possible temperature to match the LOAD at any given TIME. In reality, with the right equipment (that does most of the work for you) it is not difficult to achieve. Choose the wrong equipment, and you will be lucky to get any for of reasonable performance.



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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01/04/2024 2:42 pm  

@nicholab That beggars belief! Surely a Heat Geek trained installer installed Heat Pump is going to be a well specified pump that is well set up and adjusted? The only thing I can imagine in that case is that the dwelling is a large volume building and the previous heating mechanism was fuelled by a very cheap means! Allowing for the present “Let’s charge the Gas Premium to the users of Electricity via a Levvy’, powering a pump with less than a COP of 4 is unlikely to be cheaper than an efficient Gas Boiler but it shouldn’t be outrageously more expensive should it?! Quizzically, Toodles.


This post was modified 2 years ago by Toodles

Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Brendon Uys
(@heacol)
Prominent Member Contributor
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 415
01/04/2024 2:56 pm  

@toodles The Heat Geek brand is just that, a commercial, moneymaking brand.



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2694
01/04/2024 3:44 pm  

@heacol That I don’t doubt! As I see it, Adam Chapman and friends set up a franchise via popularisation on YouTube and invited installers to carry out training on their course; a sort of self-appointed certification scheme that might infer a certain standard of workmanship. Adam claims to back up installs carried out by HG trained installers I believe but I have no direct experience of this nor of the standard they claim to work to. The ‘Brand’ seems to suggest that their installers will achieve very high standards of install and of performance (COP) thus being very economic to run; as I say, I have no personal experience and am basing my previous comments on here-say only. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 KenBone
(@kenbone)
Trusted Member Member Professional Installer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 49
01/04/2024 4:05 pm  

@toodles don't get me going 

 



   
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