@deltona Sorry to have mis-read your post and intentions but you did mention hasty installations etc.

This is why I rarely post on forums, too many sensitive souls.

Posted by: @deltona

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Can you take this debate elsewhere please, it has nothing to do with me or this thread.

Thank you.

Yes, of course. I'll get that arranged.

@dwynwen Eccles often ended up in the (cold?) water - or ‘deaded’. Toodles.

Posted by: @dwynwen

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@majordennisbloodnok 

Thank you for that. My answer was light hearted sarcasm, OK, lowest form.... and,  as I said, not meant to be offensive in any way.

I thought the scheme was for the long term benefit of the environment, climate change mitigation, a safer future for children and grandchildren. And, of course, for the relatively short term benefit of the occupant, whether tenant or owner.

Perhaps I should sign off as Eccles.... think that was the dozy Goon.

Not a problem at all, @dwynwen. @toodles is not one to be quick to offense so I'm sure he took it in the manner intended. Meanwhile, we'll do as @deltona asked and split this rabbit hole off to a separate topic.

I don't mind thread drift, it's how conversation naturally goes. But blundering in and having an argument about something completely different is a bit rude.

Dwynwen you were on topic, what came after wasn't.

It's like trying to buy some fish n chips whilst two people roll around on the chippy floor having a scrap 🤣 

Posted by: @deltona

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Exactly how cheap is a cheap heat pump?

I think that is part of why the deal fell apart, but not completely. Why he's not willing to negotiate further I don't know, maybe I've backed him into a corner. I think i'm right in saying his extras part list is fiction.

Something else I never mentioned was time scales, all of this happened very quickly. On the one hand it's impressive efficiency, on the other you wonder if it's done on purpose so you don't get thinking and research time, just carried away with the idea of free goodies. Also the fact that a decent tradesman shouldn't be able to quote a job one week and fit it the next, they should be booked up for a few weeks in advance.

This is an interesting way of looking at it, and I can see exactly how you’ve arrived at that position. You’re not wrong that part of the deal probably fell apart once you started interrogating the numbers properly, and I agree with you that a lot of the “extras” list reads more like justification than engineering. When costs suddenly appear only when you ask for a recognised brand, that’s usually a sign the pricing model was built around shifting a specific unit, not designing the best system for the house.

The speed point is a big one too. Fast quoting and next-week installs can look impressive, but in heat pumps it’s often the opposite of what you want. Good installers are usually booked weeks or months out because they’re doing proper surveys, designs, ordering correctly sized kit and allowing time for commissioning. When everything moves at breakneck speed, it does start to feel like momentum is being used as a sales tool rather than confidence in the design.

Where I’d really urge caution is the “it’s free, I can always swap it later” angle. On paper it might make sense, especially given your trade background, but heat pumps aren’t quite the same as boilers in that respect. A poorly supported or obscure unit doesn’t just risk an early failure, it can lock you into awkward design choices from day one: pipe sizes, hydraulics, controls, defrost behaviour, spare parts and long-term compatibility. If that manufacturer disappears or support dries up (which is likely with some cheap, unknown brand), you’re not just replacing a box, you may be unpicking a whole system. That’s where the real cost creeps in.

The “DIY future” argument is an interesting one too, and I don’t disagree that products will become more modular and installer-proof over time. But right now, we’re in an awkward middle ground where the tech is still sensitive, the tolerances are tighter and the consequences of a bad starting point are much higher. Gas boilers are forgiving. Heat pumps, especially cheap ones with minimal support and controls, really aren’t.

You’re absolutely right to pause and get alternative BUS quotes from local installers. Even if they come back higher (which they will), at least you’ll be comparing systems designed around your house. And if you do go down that route, I’d strongly recommend sticking to established brands with a proper UK presence and parts pipeline. If something goes wrong with a no-name unit, you don’t just lose heat, you lose leverage.

As it wasn't initially relevant I didn't mention this isn't our first rodeo, we were on the list for an Eco4 Flex install until it was stopped (two weeks before they were due to start) so we've now had 3 surveys and 2 sets of calcs done. I've amassed a lot of info over the past few months, I've gone from knowing nothing to knowing a bit. Still a lot to learn though.

@deltona A diy install isnt as scary as it sounds. Its not rocket science and there is a lot if good info out there. Check out glyn hudsons videos on youtube.  That was my starting point. 😁

Posted by: @bontwoody

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@deltona A diy install isnt as scary as it sounds. Its not rocket and there is a lot if good info out there. Check out glyn hudsons videos on youtube.  That was my starting point. 😁

Have found his channel, thank you 👍 

@deltona happy to help as much as I can if you decide to investgate the diy route. You might look at heatpunk to do a heat loss survey and check it against any previous usage figures you may have.

I paid 2k for a samsung HP, 1.5K for a mixergy cylinder and maybe 1K in sundries. My system has a SCOP of 4.3 which many "professionally installed" systems struggle to match

Posted by: @deltona

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"Add buffer tank at 350 (Why?)

Wireless thermostat 150 (already included in Samsung extras pack)

2 x 25/80 circulation pumps 300 (Why does Samsung need this and Ecoheat not?)

Flow setter 80 (ditto)

Extra labour time 

Not all "Heat Pumps" are created equal. Some outdoor units contain the circulation pump(s), others do not. The Samsung outdoor units does not contain any filters, strainers, flow sensors or circulation pumps, so when specifying a Samsung unit, these will all needs to be specified separately, along with the time and labour to install them. My Samsung ASHP unit was installed as part of a package including a Joule pre-plumbed cylinder which came with all the extras pre-fitted (including 2 x Wilo para circulation pumps and flow sensor), but at significant extra cost (but saved time and labour during the install).

@old_scientist This does make the unit smaller as the box of tricks is indoors which is an option (online) and includes all but the pump. Midea however includes all but their unit is longer, suppose its whatever you require.