Questions on my Hitachi Yutaki SCombi Heat Pump
I am trying to understand more about my Hitachi Yutaki SCombi Heat Pump (I am new to this and have a limited understanding). I appreciate that there are no active users of this system on this forum. So some questions.
The heat pump has a max power of 3kw input and approx. 12kw output.
Is the primary circuit the circuit that contains the refrigerant (outdoor unit to indoor unit piping)?
HPWF - m3/hr Heat pump water flow. What is this, I can see it modulates down from 2.06 m3/hr to lower numbers. I thought it was the rate of flow of refrigerant across the heat exchanger, but it says Heat pump “water flow”
HPH4 - Inverter frequency operation. The speed that the compressor runs at, and 120hz is the maximum? This is a modulating compressor?
HPTi - Heat pump inlet temperature and HPTo - Heat pump outlet temperature. Is this the temperatures across the heat exchanger on the water side of the system ?
I see the forum often uses a formular Power kW = Flow(l/m)/60 x DT x 4.2. Is there a more details explanation of how I should be using this formular to manage my system?
The system is set for a Delta T of 5 degrees. Is this 5 degrees across the heat exchanger on the refrigerant side or water side??
The heat pump produces a temperature of say 45C to the heat exchanger, which turns into a flow temperature of say 30C. Why does the water side not achieve the 45C?
Is there a minimum flow temperature that I can run, with a Delta T of 5C? If have a flow of 30C, this means my return cannot be less than 25C, is this correct?
How does this Hitachi system work. I have a set temperature, and it adjusts the compressor speed and flow rate of refrigerant to maintain the set temperature across the heat exchanger (water or refrigerant), it this how it works?
I run a fixed temperature as the Hitachi weather compensation system is very erratic (outside temperature fluctuations from the sun)
I have attached the explanation of the acronyms from the manual.
Hitachi Yutaki SCombi Heat Pump
(Indoor Unit ) RWD-3.0RW1E-220S-K
(Outdoor Unit) RAS-3WHVRP1
2024 build bungalow
Southern england
179 m2
High level of insulation
Underfloor heating
All 12 circuits are fully open all the time
1 thermostat in family room
7KW heat pump
50 litre buffer tank (4 port)
3.6KW solar panels
Energy used by heating 2527 KWh - 7527 KWh (SCOP 3.5 approx)
Can I suggest you read (if you havent already) this 'starters guide' to heat pumps?
I think you may be getting things confused. Firstly dont worry about the refrigerant circuit, thats for the designers to worry about. Its the water circuit which goes through your emitters you need to concenterate on.
Posted by: @trebor12345HPWF - m3/hr Heat pump water flow. What is this, I can see it modulates down from 2.06 m3/hr to lower numbers. I thought it was the rate of flow of refrigerant across the heat exchanger, but it says Heat pump “water flow”
Yes it will be the rate of flow of water to the emitters. This water also flows across an internal heat exchanger where it absorbs energy from the refrigerant. The rate may well modulate up and down
Posted by: @trebor12345HPH4 - Inverter frequency operation. The speed that the compressor runs at, and 120hz is the maximum? This is a modulating compressor?
Yes it is the speed of the compressor and yes it is a modulating compressor. Dont know if 120Hz is the max, but it will be there or thereabouts.
Posted by: @trebor12345HPTi - Heat pump inlet temperature and HPTo - Heat pump outlet temperature. Is this the temperatures across the heat exchanger on the water side of the system ?
Yes, which should hopefully equal the temperature drop across the emitters unless your buffer is 4 port not 2 port (if so thats disappointing) or there is a long distance/lots of loss between heat pump and emitters
Posted by: @trebor12345I see the forum often uses a formular Power kW = Flow(l/m)/60 x DT x 4.2. Is there a more details explanation of how I should be using this formular to manage my system?
You dont (or shouldn't) need to. Once the water pump speed (or speed range) is set by your installer the heat pump will sort it out. In any case you cant directly control DT, its a function of flow rate and emitter output (your heat pump may modulate the water flow rate to maintain it, or it may not, different heat pump designers make different decisions about this point.
Posted by: @trebor12345The system is set for a Delta T of 5 degrees. Is this 5 degrees across the heat exchanger on the refrigerant side or water side??
Water side
Posted by: @trebor12345The heat pump produces a temperature of say 45C to the heat exchanger, which turns into a flow temperature of say 30C. Why does the water side not achieve the 45C?
Where are you getting the figure of 45C and indeed 30C from, this could be a problem but until we know what you are measuring we cant be certain.
Posted by: @trebor12345How does this Hitachi system work. I have a set temperature, and it adjusts the compressor speed and flow rate of refrigerant to maintain the set temperature across the heat exchanger (water or refrigerant), it this how it works?
The primary control loop of pretty much all heat pumps attempts to adjust two things namely
1. The compression ratio of the compressor - to match the refrigerant temperature to the desired flow temperature (defined by the WC curve or as a fixed temperature). The refrigerant temp will be controlled to a value above above the desired flow temp because heat flows from hot to cold not the other way round
2. The frequency of the compressor to match the power output of the unit to the demand from the house (which it can work out by observing the return temperature.
There are various secondary control loops but this is the basic way it works
Posted by: @trebor12345I run a fixed temperature as the Hitachi weather compensation system is very erratic (outside temperature fluctuations from the sun)
There should not be outside temperature fluctuations from the sun. The OAT sensor should be installed in the shade or if its attached to the unit protected from the sun.
What flow temperature are you running at when its cold outside?
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
@jamespa Thank you for the reply. That clarifies things. I hadn't read the starters guide, but will do now.
It's a 2 port buffer.
When zero or below, I run a flow of 32 or 33C.
Where are you getting the figure of 45C and indeed 30C from, this could be a problem but until we know what you are measuring we cant be certain. - I made the numbers up to try and understand how the system was working. I often see a refrigerant temperature of 45C and a flow of 30C with a return of 25C.
Hitachi Yutaki SCombi Heat Pump
(Indoor Unit ) RWD-3.0RW1E-220S-K
(Outdoor Unit) RAS-3WHVRP1
2024 build bungalow
Southern england
179 m2
High level of insulation
Underfloor heating
All 12 circuits are fully open all the time
1 thermostat in family room
7KW heat pump
50 litre buffer tank (4 port)
3.6KW solar panels
Energy used by heating 2527 KWh - 7527 KWh (SCOP 3.5 approx)
Posted by: @trebor12345It's a 2 port buffer.
When zero or below, I run a flow of 32 or 33C
OK, thats good and low. With low flow temperatures like this there is less to be gained by operating weather compensation than if you were operating at higher FTs. if you can fix the OAT sensor so its in the shade, I still suggest you do try WC again - it really should not be in the sun! If you cant probably dont worry too much!
Posted by: @trebor12345I often see a refrigerant temperature of 45C and a flow of 30C with a return of 25C.
I honestly don't know if 15C difference between refrigerant temp and flow temp is normal, it seems excessive but it does depend on the heat exchanger. If you aren't getting excessive bills and are getting a reasonable COP 9ratio of heat out to electricity in - which somewhere it will tell you) I wouldnt worry.
4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.
- 22 Forums
- 2,043 Topics
- 44.5 K Posts
- 51 Online
- 3,264 Members
Join Us!
Trusted Installers
Struggling to find a reliable heat pump installer? A poor installation can lead to inefficiencies and high running costs. We now connect homeowners with top-rated installers who deliver quality work and excellent service.
✅ Verified, trusted & experienced installers
✅ Nationwide coverage expanding
✅ Special offers available
Latest Posts
-
Here is an analysis of the rads proposed excluding the ...
By JamesPa , 7 hours ago
-
RE: Massive Electricity Cost for Running My Air Source Heat Pump
I agree @mark-h The Building Regs are now very readable...
By Transparent , 10 hours ago
-
RE: Help me understand my Mitsubishi Ecodan system
@carpenterstation When changing settings in the ser...
By RobS , 11 hours ago
-
RE: Getting the best out of a heat pump - is Homely a possible answer?
Cynically I would suggest its there to protect the inst...
By JamesPa , 17 hours ago
-
RE: Ecodan Legionella cycle - immersion heater problem
Thanks for letting us know @clockworks I admire your ...
By Transparent , 1 day ago
-
@fillib what a wonderful result, both for you personall...
By Judith , 2 days ago
-
RE: Revised version of MCS-020 (noise standards for heat pumps)
As you say this is no change, which I personally think ...
By JamesPa , 2 days ago
-
RE: What happens when the outside temperature exceeds the upper WC point?
@editor not via the WC curve but as @old_scientist ment...
By bontwoody , 2 days ago
-
RE: MHHS and Heat Pump compatibility
@toodles to be clear I don't know if there will be a re...
By Scalextrix , 2 days ago
-
I did not know this concept, although others might. I...
By Morgan , 3 days ago
-
RE: Help me keep the faith with my air source heat pump installation
@adamk it's probably filtering different providers in t...
By Mars , 3 days ago
-
RE: why solar diverters for HW instead of the heat pump?
I should probably add to my comments above that, whilst...
By JamesPa , 3 days ago
-
RE: Commencing on an ASHP Installation Process
Lots of reading and questioning which the background ma...
By JamesPa , 3 days ago
-
RE: The Great British Heat Pump Quiz
Not sure how that happened 🤣 I suspect that it ...
By Mars , 4 days ago
-
RE: Help with understanding my Mitsubishi Ecodan air source heat pump
@patch I think @ashp-bobba gave you some great pointers...
By SUNandAIR , 4 days ago
-
RE: Installing your own ASHP - DIY
Hi @tomasmcguinness, how are you progressing with this?...
By Ashfp , 5 days ago
-
RE: Say hello and introduce yourself
Welcome to the forum. If you are new to ASHPs I sug...
By JamesPa , 5 days ago
-
RE: The Rise and Fall of Europe’s Most Generous Green Subsidy
This is where the cold water storage tank was situated;...
By Dwynwen , 6 days ago
-
RE: Air Source Heat Pump - Side Alley Suitability
Thats probably fair enough. The degree-days calculatio...
By JamesPa , 6 days ago