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Madre mía - Daikin and Octopus' Kraken

 
Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Lucia 2 years ago
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
Honorable Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 03/07/2024 9:32 pm   [#1607]

I had my Octopus heat loss survey today. I won't talk about it here - I'll keep the tech details and questions in my original thread

But sadly, what has really done my head in, is when my surveyor mentioned how it: 'can all be controlled by Kraken'.  What?

Yes, he said, it will get you the best time of use energy rates and check it's running efficiently all underpinned by machine learning blah blah...... if it needs a tweak or a fix we can do it remotely. 

Noooo. That's my data and my domain. Smart meters are bad enough, you definitely ain't controlling my heat pump. 

What happens if the system crashes/gets a virus/power outage/aliens land/ Nato nutters launch WW3? What if I change energy supplier?   I'm really broke & can't afford Heat Geek installation rates but this is not good.

It's data collection on a global scale which is a nice little earner for a hedge-fund backed IT platform company with a 'sideline' in the energy business.  

Worse.... Octopus don't say a word about this in any of their materials that I've seen. It only got raised today because in a meandering geeky conversation, I raised it. I was thinking it was a Cosy 6 issue and that it wouldn't be an issue with a Daikin.  More fool me. 🙁

 



   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
03/07/2024 9:51 pm  

When he said 'can be controlled by Kraken', I suggest that you confirm that this is an option and not compulsory.

 



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Topic starter 03/07/2024 10:01 pm  

When he said 'can be controlled by Kraken', I suggest that you confirm that this is an option and not compulsory.

Good point - I hope it is an option and not compulsory...

I would eventually like some kind of monitoring if possible such as a modbus setup or whatever but under my control not anyone else's. 

 



   
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 Anonymous 5011
(@Anonymous 5011)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 562
04/07/2024 8:22 am  

https://kraken.tech/



   
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 Gary
(@gary)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 350
04/07/2024 11:39 am  

This will be linked to specific Octopus tariffs not the heat pump installation, you don't have to be an Octopus customer to have a heat pump installed by them.

They have already linked EV and battery charging to Kraken, the next logical step is heat pump control. 

It will be very similar to Homely they are just running the heat pump at times when the grid is greener, it needs a hub connected to the internet and pods to measure the house temp.

If you don't sign up to the appropriate tariff then they won't have control of your heat pump you have nothing to worry about.

It will also only work with an Octopus Cosy Heat pump so if you are getting a Daikin it won't be compatible.

 

 



   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 05/07/2024 4:24 pm  

Posted by: @gary
↑

This will be linked to specific Octopus tariffs not the heat pump installation, you don't have to be an Octopus customer to have a heat pump installed by them.

They have already linked EV and battery charging to Kraken, the next logical step is heat pump control. 

It will be very similar to Homely they are just running the heat pump at times when the grid is greener, it needs a hub connected to the internet and pods to measure the house temp.

If you don't sign up to the appropriate tariff then they won't have control of your heat pump you have nothing to worry about.

It will also only work with an Octopus Cosy Heat pump so if you are getting a Daikin it won't be compatible. 

Well, they're linking it to the Daikins too - they've got an app that integrates with the Daikin controller apparently. But today I had a visit from a very knowledgable installer to check some details and he explained I do not have to have it, it's optional. 

But yes, you are absolutely correct about how it functions - except the Daikin set-up is rather different from the Cosy - there's no sensor pads / pods for starters.

However, (as I'm sure you know) there's no 'greener grid'. You cannot separate green from carbon-loaded electricity (sadly), these tech consumption control add-ons are to compensate for years of underinvestment in our privatised grid. Load shifting! 

 



   
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 Anonymous 5011
(@Anonymous 5011)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 562
05/07/2024 5:01 pm  

Posted by: @lucia
↑

there's no 'greener grid'.

that's not fully correct, there are times when the grid is greener and when it's not. 

Currently UK wide 22% is wind, 20% gas, 18% solar, 17% nuke, 12% import etc.

However my local mix NE Scotland is 92% wind the rest is hydro. This will change with the weather etc. but currently 100% green.

 



   
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JamesPa
 JamesPa
(@jamespa)
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05/07/2024 5:35 pm  

Posted by: @lucia
↑

However, (as I'm sure you know) there's no 'greener grid'. You cannot separate green from carbon-loaded electricity (sadly), these tech consumption control add-ons are to compensate for years of underinvestment in our privatised grid. Load shifting! 

I don't for one moment dispute that there has been underinvestment, but that doesn't mean that load shifting should be dismissed.  It makes perfect sense, both from an economic and engineering point of view, to do a combination of load shifting and grid reinforcement.  That way we will all get what we need for less money and with less use of precious resources. 

We should be embracing this with enthusiasm, the opportunities are vast as we are heading towards the time where we an average household will be able to store order 100kWh in the combination of electric car(s) and house fabric.  That's a lot and has the potential massively to reduce the peak load that the grid needs to be designed for.


4kW peak of solar PV since 2011; EV and a 1930s house which has been partially renovated to improve its efficiency. 7kW Vaillant heat pump.


   
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 Lucia
(@lucia)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 354
Topic starter 05/07/2024 7:24 pm  

It makes perfect sense, both from an economic and engineering point of view, to do a combination of load shifting and grid reinforcement.  That way we will all get what we need for less money and with less use of precious resources. 

It certainly makes some sense, I agree, but I'm reserving further judgement until I learn more. It's a subject that interests me. 

But.... in terms of 'precious resources' we're displacing a lot onto precious resources from 'elsewhere' - copper, cobalt etc., I work in Africa and see Congolese cobalt mines, for example, close up. This is a huge problem. 



   
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