@mairia, that reply to you (which you've just emailed me) is outrageous. Copy and paste reply that didn't tackle a single point. My private AI that I have trained gives me a better MCS reply than MCS's to you. They really are an incompetent, disgraceful organisation with no real purpose.

Posted by: @editor

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@mairia, that reply to you (which you've just emailed me) is outrageous. Copy and paste reply that didn't tackle a single point. My private AI that I have trained gives me a better MCS reply than MCS's to you. They really are an incompetent, disgraceful organisation with no real purpose.

That's certainly what it feels like. It did seem when I was filling in their online form that I was being steered towards contacting HIES instead so I'm not surprised by the response. I've emailed them back asking if they can give me a copy of the original heat loss calculation. And also any information about the timeline of issuing the changed MCS certificate and whether they have a position on installers altering certificates significantly some time after installation! I thought it would be useful to have this information if possible before approaching HIES. It feels like it's going to be a long process 😔

@mairia  who is your MP?

This case hasn't yet progressed to the point where it would be useful to have an MP take action...
... but I'd like the chance to do some preparation in the background.

Thanks.

Posted by: @transparent

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@mairia  who is your MP?

This case hasn't yet progressed to the point where it would be useful to have an MP take action...
... but I'd like the chance to do some preparation in the background.

Thanks.

I've always been curious about this direction. What additional "powers" does an MP have over a MCS, a consumer code or certification body? If these organisations don't act, I don't understand what the MP can do ignite them into action. 

@mairia, the only useful (and correct) info is that MCS steered you to HIES. HIES claim to have a 'good' record of trying to correct issues. Let's see. I'll continue to watch the outcome of this saga.

Posted by: @editor

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What additional "powers" does an MP have over a MCS, a consumer code or certification body? If these organisations don't act, I don't understand what the MP can do ignite them into action.

MCS is appointed to its role by the Secretary of State for ESNZ.
An MP can 'require' the SoS to respond to deficiencies in its role.

A failure to provide a truthful and proper response leaves the Minister open to questions in the Commons chamber.

The CEO of MCS can also be called by the Select Committee on Energy Security and Net Zero, and face questioning in public.

A "letter from an MP" is regarded as requiring a forthright and true response in a timely manner.

Posted by: @transparent

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MCS is appointed to its role by the Secretary of State for ESNZ.

Thats helpful.  Presumably the role that the Secretary of State appointed it to is somewhere documented.  That would be the basis of any questions etc.

Do you happen to know where this appointment is recorded?  If not I may go looking!

If you search for "Microgeneration Certification Scheme appointed by" there are lots of announcements since they ceased to be run by BEIS in 2018.

Although Government tries to say that MCS is independent, they keep making the mistake of the Secretary of State 'appointing' them for each new scheme
thought up by DESNZ.

That's where an astute Opposition MP can start holding the SoS to account,
which is why I'm interested to find out the background of the MP for @mairia 's constituency.

If you'd like to see an MP getting very 'upset' at Government energy policy threatening his constituency, then have a look
at this video clip from the Campaign for the Protection of Rural England, and 1:40 onwards in particular

Posted by: @transparent

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The CEO of MCS can also be called by the Select Committee on Energy Security and Net Zero, and face questioning in public.

Given that DESNZ are the ones backing MCS, surely that's unlikely to happen.

The CEO of MCS has appeared before the Select Committee on several occasions already.

My MP is Dr Zubir Ahmed, Labour, Glasgow South West.

And this is the reply from MCS to my follow up query about the original heat loss calculation and the production of a new MCS Certificate.

"We do not hold a copy of the heat loss calculation, as this is produced and retained by the installer. The only information we hold on the MCS Installations Database (MID) is the MCS certificate, which is created by the installer after commissioning the installation.

The dates of each certificate version are shown on the certificate itself. Once a certificate has been amended, it replaces the existing version on the MID. Installers can update certain sections for administrative reasons after a certificate is created; however, details such as the address and MPAN cannot be amended directly and would require a formal request to us.

If you have concerns regarding compliance or the changes made to the certificate, we recommend contacting the installer’s Certification Body, as they are best placed to assist and investigate further.

Flo Group Ltd T/A Flo Renewables’ Certification Body is NAPIT, who can be contacted at complaints@napit.org.uk or on 0345 543 0330.

Certification Bodies, independently accredited by UKAS and working on behalf of MCS, are responsible for certifying installers against the MCS Standards, which are publicly available on our website. Installers must also be members of a CTSI-approved Consumer Code. Certification Bodies and Consumer Codes perform different functions on behalf of the Scheme, and the nature of your complaint may dictate which of the two organisations will be involved in handling it. In some cases, both may be involved."

So according to this the 9kW certificate was only produced in June of this year as that is the date on it. And MCS aren't bothered that my installer has done this in their name! Is changing the size of the heat pump 15 months after installation considered an 'administrative reason'? And yet another organisation for me to contact - NAPIT. It's exhausting, but I'll contact NAPIT and HIES over the weekend.

Posted by: @mairia

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So according to this the 9kW certificate was only produced in June of this year as that is the date on it. And MCS aren't bothered that my installer has done this in their name! Is changing the size of the heat pump 15 months after installation considered an 'administrative reason'? And yet another organisation for me to contact - NAPIT. It's exhausting, but I'll contact NAPIT and HIES over the weekend.

Honestly, unless you enjoy this sort of thing (some people do which is fair enough), I really wouldn't bother at this stage, it will achieve nothing except further to exhaust you.  I would instead concentrate on working out whether you actually needed an 11kW machine as opposed to a 9kW one by attempting to solve the problems you actually have.  

Obviously if it transpires that you did need an 11kW machine, that would change the picture and you will in addition have evidence to present, but until that is clear you risk spending a lot of effort for very little material outcome or none.

Its your choice, but for me life is too short to follow up these sort of things, unless there is likely to be a material outcome which cant be obtained more easily by another means.