Welcome to the forums.

Not a popular opinion, but I actually like hybrids. That said, the BUS grant doesn’t currently cover hybrid systems… to qualify, the old boiler has to go. There’s been talk about restructuring the scheme to allow them, but as far as I know, that’s not in effect yet.

That aside, a well-installed heat pump in a 3-bed home really shouldn’t need a hybrid setup.

If you do go down that route, the best brands for hybrid control are NIBE and Stiebel Eltron. From our own (sometimes painful) experience, it’s the controls that make or break hybrid systems.

Your installer will need to be familiar with control logic for hybrid systems as it’s often the weakest link.

My advice quite seriously is don't, far too complex for a tenanted property.  Get a decent ashp instal and advise tenants to get a sensible electricity tariff.  Done properly (which unfortunately quite a few aren't) it will be same price or cheaper to run than gas, and more comfortable.   Plus you will be eligible for BUS.

People here can provide advice on how to qualify installers.  Unfortunately there are cowboys out there.

Do you have any consumption records?  These are useful for sense checking heat loss which is key to design and often way out.

@paultheheating, where in the country are you? 

Gloucestershire, did not realise that old oil system has to be made unoperational to qualify for grant, what if you start up a bivalent system sometime after getting the ashp grant.

@paultheheating, the boiler needs to be removed under the scheme as it presently stands.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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what if you start up a bivalent system sometime after getting the ashp grant.

That’s a really interesting (and slightly murky) one. Technically, under the BUS scheme rules, your system must be a standalone heat pump installation at the point of commissioning and application. If you later add a boiler to create a bivalent setup, it would almost certainly fall outside the grant’s terms, and in theory, you could be asked to repay it if audited.

That said, I’m not sure how actively this is policed once the system is signed off and paid. It’s one of those grey areas that probably needs clarification. I’ll look into this and get back to you.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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Gloucestershire, did not realise that old oil system has to be made unoperational to qualify for grant, what if you start up a bivalent system sometime after getting the ashp grant.

The requirement includes that the ASHP replaces all heat generating components of the original system and is capable of supplying 100% of the heating requirement.  I think most will interpret this to mean that the old boiler must be removed. 

SOFAIK there is nothing in the legislation that expressly prevents you retrofitting an new oil boiler (it would need to be new otherwise the heat pump doesnt 'replace all heat generating components of the old system') although to do so other than in extremis would be somewhat immoral, if that matters to you, and of course unnecessary because the heat pump must be capable of supplying 100% of the heating requirement.

If you get yourself a correctly sized Vaillant heat pump (easy to control, mid market brand with a wide installer network) designed to work at 45C  (radiators upsized as necessary), directly connected to the emitters (no buffer, LLH or PHE), remove all or almost all of the TRVs heads and all thermostats, and set up weather compensation more or less correctly (easy to do or for your tenants to do, and if you don't do it precisely the way the Vaillant controls work means that it doesn't much matter) you should get a SCOP of over 3, probably 4 or thereabouts.  Heat Geek will guarantee a scop of 3.4-4 (depending on what options you take), albeit for a premium price relative to some installers, but  less of a premium that you would pay if you sacrifice the BUS grant. 

With the OVO heat pump add on tarif at 15p/kWh for the heat pump consumption (normal prices for all other consumption) you only need a SCOP just over 2 for it to be cheaper than gas.  Alternatively if your tenants have an EV then an EV tariff also works well.   

Dear Jamespa thankyou for your detailed reply, but it really scares me, there seem to be so many things that need to be just correct to achieve the performance that I will get inevitably it wrong at some stage.

I also feel that you do not understand my position, as landlord I would like to do the right thing for the environment and fitting a ashp with the grant seemed to be an idea worth considering as the cost to me would then be minimal taking the grant into consideration.

The tenants are not interested in a higher heating or rental charge to save the environment.

Additionally I have read that all ashpumps are less efficient in the coldest weathers, whereas the oil boiler does not care how cold it gets.

If the grant is not available for a bivalent system I do not see a viable financial arguement for me to consider changing at all as any new kit cost cannot be recovered. Where is the ROI, sadly as most landlords we are not a charity.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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Dear Jamespa thankyou for your detailed reply, but it really scares me, there seem to be so many things that need to be just correct to achieve the performance that I will get inevitably it wrong at some stage.

Thats why I mentioned the Heat Geek guarantee which should largely circumvent this issue.  There is, for sure, some skill in selecting a heat pump installer, as there is in selecting more or less any tradesman in the construction industry, which sadly has its share of cowboys.  This forum can help with this.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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I also feel that you do not understand my position, as landlord I would like to do the right thing for the environment and fitting a ashp with the grant seemed to be an idea worth considering as the cost to me would then be minimal taking the grant into consideration.

I think I do understand your position, you want to do 'the right thing' so long as it doesn't cost you much money.  In that case the time to do it is when the oil boiler would otherwise need replacing within a year or two.  At this point you are going to have to spend money anyway and, if you are well prepared, you just can spend it differently!

Posted by: @paultheheating

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Additionally I have read that all ashpumps are less efficient in the coldest weathers, whereas the oil boiler does not care how cold it gets.

That is indeed true, its a function of the underlying physics.  However the performance in mild weather compensates so overall, correctly installed, it should end up cheaper or no more expensive to run than gas, when averaged over the season.  Oil prices are more volatile and currently very low relative to other fuels.

Mine, for example, is about 20% cheaper and significantly more comfortable than my 15 year old gas boiler.  However I readily acknowledge that there are poor installs out there (if there weren't this forum woudn't exist) and these may well work out more expensive.  Hence why I mention the heat geek guarantee and the help available from this forum, as well as a currently available tariff that is sufficiently attractive its pretty much guaranteed to offer a saving.

It might be worth adding that, from a landlord perspective, there is a reduced likelihood of mould/damp, if that is a risk in your property.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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If the grant is not available for a bivalent system I do not see a viable financial argument for me to consider changing at all as any new kit cost cannot be recovered. Where is the ROI, sadly as most landlords we are not a charity.

Fully understood.  The objective of the taxpayer funded expenditure is to deliver environmental improvements not ROI for landlords so its not too surprising that it may not do the latter.

@paultheheating How do you currently recoup the oil cost from the tenant and who pays the electricity bills?

My understanding is the BUS grant is due to end March 2028, with last applications Dec.2027. This might concentrate the mind - losing the £7.5k is not insignificant!

Posted by: @iaack

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@paultheheating How do you currently recoup the oil cost from the tenant and who pays the electricity bills?

My understanding is the BUS grant is due to end March 2028, with last applications Dec.2027. This might concentrate the mind - losing the £7.5k is not insignificant!

I believe you are right, but of course these things often get extended. 

More likely, I suspect, is that it will end autumn 2029 (ie some time after the next election) depending on the colour of the next Government.  According to someone I spoke to the other day when they were campaigning for one of the likely candidates at the next election, climate change is a hoax and the met office tells lies about it because 50% of the met office weather stations don't actually exist.  Thus none of us need to be concerned.

Posted by: @paultheheating

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The tenants are not interested in a higher heating or rental charge to save the environment.

I get that...

... but who is paying for the oil and electricity at the moment?

Is energy use incorporated into the monthly rent?

If not, then what happens if installing an ASHP results in lower energy costs for the tenant?
With help from us here, I see no good reason why that reduction isn't achievable, provided the tenant changes to a suitable electricity tariff.

Secondly, have you yet checked with your local council?

It's worthwhile talking with your District/Borough Council to see if they have grant assistance for improving the quality of homes in the private rental sector.

Sometimes these have eligibility criteria which can seem odd...
... such as being dependent on the current level of insulation, or whether the tenant receives any benefits.

Some Councils (incl mine) have a scheme to offer a FREE energy survey of a property.
These are often administered by a local Community Energy Organisation using trained/qualified members.
The survey results are then available to be used as the basis of a grant application.

Local Authority schemes vary widely across Britain, and I can't possibly keep up to date which which Councils do and do not have funding for energy grants.

Please let us know how you get on.

Finally, may I point out that you and I are in the same Regional Energy Strategic Plan area.

I am actively involved, and I also have access to internal data and mapping facilities used by NGED, with whom I enjoy good rapport.

Those two factors don't directly affect the questions you've raised in this Topic, but I thought you should know.