Posted by: @judith

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Clivet is a badged Midea and personally I wouldn’t have one given me.

An interesting comment. Could you please elaborate on why you don’t rate Midea and/or Clivet? Genuinely interested. 

@benson my problem was finding out that it was a Midea and I’d started to read the issues that some people had. I realise that other manufacturers also badge their pumps at nominal powers ~7C rather than at -ve temperatures, but it doesn’t impress me whoever does it.

@judith that’s a fair point.

Posted by: @judith

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@benson my problem was finding out that it was a Midea and I’d started to read the issues that some people had. I realise that other manufacturers also badge their pumps at nominal powers ~7C rather than at -ve temperatures, but it doesn’t impress me whoever does it.

Ok. Does it matter, as surely it is all covered in the product data sheet? Just curious...and noted re: the issues with Midea. We were initially set on getting the Vaillant BTW, but then someone offered the Clivet and the difference in price as said was substantial.

Posted by: @benson

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Ok. Does it matter, as surely it is all covered in the product data sheet?

The problem is it is often buried in the detailed product engineering data, not in the promotional literature, and it is a bit much to expect consumers to gain access to that data and understand it before committing to a purchase. It doesn't help at all that the standard conditions for which heat pump manufacturers quote output are undemanding (7 degrees outside air temperature). My own nominal 14 kW Midea heat pump for a calculated heat loss of 12.3 kW is a case in point. The glossy brochure I had available to me at quote time gave an output (at 7 degrees OAT) range of 13.6 to 14.5 kW (depending on leaving water temperature), what could possibly go wrong? Well, the OAT could drop. Buried in the engineering data which I didn't have available at the time is a 55 leaving water temperature (my design leaving water temperature) output of 11.6 kW at zero OAT, falling to 11.1 kW at -5 OAT.

I have no idea why manufacturers are allowed to get way with headline outputs that only apply when they are not needed, and are not required to state output at zero or even -2 OAT, when maximum output does matter, on their standard promotional literature.       

Posted by: @benson

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We were initially set on getting the Vaillant BTW

As this topic is being read by an OP who is still evaluating quotes for an ASHP,
I'd like to add a comment about Vaillant.

I've noticed that they have successfully built up a very large base of installers / heating engineers.
They proudly wave the flag for Vaillant and put the logo on their vans and websites.

However, in doing so they seem to have 'recruited' a number of firms who I would've rated poor for several reasons:

• pipes run below floor level with inadequate insulation or support brackets/clips
• valves placed in inaccessible locations
• shoddy treatment of customers who have been left in tears
• delays in responding to complaints for newly-installed appliances
• inadequate knowledge/understanding of the products they're recommending

None of those observations are directly related to Vaillant's products themselves.

But those poor-quality local heating firms are doing Vaillant a disservice.
Perhaps they could/should have been rooted out when attending training sessions or when Vaillant sought customer references.

After visiting a house and seeing a particularly poor installation of a new Vaillant gas boiler, I looked at the then-current advertisement for that particular company in the local press:

When choosing an expensive new heat-pump, these sorts of blunders matter.

It's not just the equipment they recommend on their quote which matters.
They must have a competent boss and workforce.

1. Check out their other local customers.
2. Look at what's actually been installed. Is it well laid out?
3. What instruction and documentation was given to the customer?

@transparent All points very well taken. I have been spending a lot of time looking at feedback for these companies who have quoted me so far. I understand it is the design and installation of the system that makes the difference, not the brand of the heat pump.

@chansug a lot of it might simply depend on both the aesthetics of the ashp itself and controls, and what you like the look of.

And indeed ability to access the data if you are that way inclined. 

I am not an expert at all in terms of pipework sizing, but what I learned from my heat pump journey is that it’s all based on surveys and not an exact science and they all come with some uncertainty. Post install service is almost the most important.

then I realised beyond the complications basically its simply a trade off in terms of install vs running costs . Lowest install costs leaves buffer in case something needs changing afterwards. There is no chance octopus is so wrong it’s going to cost you anywhere near the cost of quote 1.

and then that there is a trade off between sizing for the very coldest day of the year or most of the winter when it’s hovering between 3-9 degrees in England. If you go too small it could struggle 1-2 weeks a year whereas if it’s too big it’ll be costly for 25 weeks a year.

in the end I went with octopus. Saved a few K and they have been brilliant (4x after install visit for small issues).

ps they designed at 50c , it’s standard, but my actual temp is 30-39 and my scop therefore 4-4.5 much better than the quote. Using a daikin.

Ps the HIES insurance is worth absolutely nothing 

@pie_eaterThank you so much for your input. You are the first octopus installed member to comment and it is good to know you are happy with the installation.
I am on the fence at the moment between HG recognized installer vs octopus. Obviously the HG recognised ones cost three times more especially if I go for a 45c install with more radiators to upgrade whereas octopus is all in one, flat price.
My boiler has already broken down twice in the last two weeks so I am really in a tricky situation whether to go with the HG installer or not. Octopus know about my situation and they are trying to help but due to the storm the cosy 9 installation has been pushed back to June and I cannot wait that long. They are trying to check if a suitably sized Daikin is available for my heat loss requirements. The HG installer can install within the next five weeks.

I am also trying to get a few quotes to get the radiators upgraded using a local gas engineer to see if it saves some money.

So still waiting for those quotes for radiator changes and for octopus to get back to me.

@chansug Beware of Heat Geeks. They quoted me £6K to change 8 rads. I changed them in the end - material cost £700 - and didn't use Heat Geeks.