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Heat pump quotes: Advice needed

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by Chansug 1 year ago
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 Chansug
(@chansug)
Active Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter 26/01/2025 3:24 pm   [#2056]

Dear all,

My first time posting and I am so glad I found this forum to discuss my heat pump journey.

As my boiler is on its way out, I started my heat pump journey about four months ago when I started learning more about heat pumps and what to expect. After learning as much as possible, I decided to get about four quotes from renewable heating hub registered heat pump installers.

I have had three heat loss calculations and I needed any advice that could help me choose:

 

  1. A local firm who are Heat Geek trained confirmed a heat loss of 7.02 kw and have recommended a vailant arotherm 7kw unit with our pre-existing  microbore as the pressure within the system will be less than the tolerance limit so won’t cause any wear and tear in the longer term. They were brilliant, very good at their job and answered so many of my questions even after the survey with no obligations. 
  2. A well known national power supply company came up with a heat loss of just over 9kw and has recommended their own branded 9kw heat pump with my existing  10mm microbore. Their surveyor was also quite thorough and she also spent several hours measuring and noting all the details and the proposal looks very good. 
  3. A not-so-local firm but the only one who has recommended changing microbore to 15mm pipes who have calculated a heat loss of 8.745kw and have recommended a Clivet 12kw system. Their installation comes with a 10 year insurance backed HIES warranty for workmanship and the heat pump and rest of the components.  

 

My questions are:

  1. Who is right with the heat loss calculations as there is a notable difference in heat loss calculation by the Heat Geek trained firm ( which they state is at -1.6 degrees design temperature )?
  2. Do I go with the firm that says to change from microbore to 15mm pipes? If so why do they need to have a bigger heat pump ( I am going to ask this question  to them anyway)
  3. Finally, who would you go with? The first and last quotes are in the ballpark 9k cost after BUS grant and the cheapest is the second one coming around 3.5k

 

Happy to provide further information if needed.


Currently seeking quotes for Heat Pump.
4 bedroom single storey detached house with 8.6kw solar panels and Solaredge 10kwh battery.
Also drive an electric car so on Octopus Go tariff.


   
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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
26/01/2025 3:59 pm  

@chansug Welcome to the forum.

Could you specify what flow temperature and design OAT the three quotations are given for? 🙂

Also a description of your property might be useful too


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Chansug
(@chansug)
Active Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter 26/01/2025 4:30 pm  

@bontwoody thank you for a quick reply.  The heat geek trained surveyor was the only one who mentioned the OAT as -1.5 degrees. The other two reports do not specify this. The flow temperature is 50 degrees for all three quotes.

I live in a 4 bedroom house detached with an extended kitchen which needs an extra radiator. The loft insulation is good at 100mm and part cavity wall insulation.


Currently seeking quotes for Heat Pump.
4 bedroom single storey detached house with 8.6kw solar panels and Solaredge 10kwh battery.
Also drive an electric car so on Octopus Go tariff.


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2711
26/01/2025 6:29 pm  

@chansug An increase in that loft insulation would be a good investment too. You may be able to get a grant from your local authority to cover the cost. Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Judith
(@judith)
Prominent Member Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 519
26/01/2025 7:31 pm  

In no particular order some thoughts:-

Clivet is a badged Midea and personally I wouldn’t have one given me.

Since a Heatgeek trained installer says your microbore is acceptable that helps the confidence in the other quote.

Does the tentacled quote warrantee the SCOP? That is useful to know. It will make a difference to your operating costs and allows you to calculate the payback time on the price difference.

We found some bits of our walls needed cavity insulation which we promptly did since a back of envelope calculation said an 18month payback time. The same will apply to extra loft insulation.

If your boiler is really wonky the waiting time for an installation is crucial and a popular installer may have a wait time of months which is too long with a failed boiler. The big company may be quicker.

That range of heat loss estimates is good, some people have had factors of two. What is your annual gas bill? There are several rules of thumb/ sanity checks you can use to determine which is closest.

See https://protonsforbreakfast.wordpress.com/2022/04/05/what-size-heat-pump-do-i-need-a-rule-of-thumb/

Good luck!

 

 


2kW + Growatt & 4kW +Sunnyboy PV on south-facing roof Solar thermal. 9.5kWh Givenergy battery with AC3. MVHR. Vaillant 7kW ASHP (very pleased with SCOP 4.7) open system operating on WC


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2711
26/01/2025 7:58 pm  

@judith When we had our loft insulation improved, we approached the local authority who informed us that there were grants available as long as we used an installer on their approved list This we did; very few conditions had to be met other than that the present insulation was below recommended minimum (it was) and that we had to clear the loft of all clutter, this we were doing at the time anyway. The insulation is now in excess of 300 mm. all over. The job was done, I signed a form and the local authority dealt with the payment. We have a loft with a series of hazard signs hung in it to warn of the need to use breathing apparatus if working in the loftspace! Regards, Toodles


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Chansug
(@chansug)
Active Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter 26/01/2025 7:58 pm  

Thank you @toodles and @judith 

I will certainly ask the question related to warranty for scop. If the firm who have quoted for microbore changes are willing to change the heat pump to another brand like Vaillant, Grant etc (which they said that they would accommodate) is it a good idea to change to 15mm pipes? HG trained firm are not changing microbores but still cost similar. 

And I can't find any reviews for Clivet online. Is it because it is a rebadged midea which does appear to have mixed reviews.

Thank you for the guide. According to the calculations there, I need a 8kw heat pump. We use anywhere between 18 to 22kwh gas annually.


Currently seeking quotes for Heat Pump.
4 bedroom single storey detached house with 8.6kw solar panels and Solaredge 10kwh battery.
Also drive an electric car so on Octopus Go tariff.


   
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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
26/01/2025 8:00 pm  

@chansug

Good advice above. 300mm is considered acceptable loft insulation these days 🙂 The fact that some of the quotes havent specified the flow temperature at a specified OAT is worrying to me, but since you have the heatgeek at -1.5C thats probably what it is.

Personally I would find the 50C flow a little too high and you will pay for it with your bills in the long run. If you are at all DIY competent the obvious choice for me would be Octopus and then upgrade radiators/pipework in your own time with the money you save. I also would avoid the third option for the same reason as above, so if you dont fancy DIY (although £5500 with buy you a lot of plumbing!) then number 1 would be my preference.


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
26/01/2025 8:14 pm  

@chansug which room has the 15mm pipework, what size is it?


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Chansug
(@chansug)
Active Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter 26/01/2025 8:57 pm  

@bontwoody none of the rooms have 15mm pipework. It is microbore throughout.


Currently seeking quotes for Heat Pump.
4 bedroom single storey detached house with 8.6kw solar panels and Solaredge 10kwh battery.
Also drive an electric car so on Octopus Go tariff.


   
ReplyQuote
bontwoody
 bontwoody
(@bontwoody)
Noble Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1009
26/01/2025 9:32 pm  

@chansug Sorry I misread and mistyped! 10mm copper pipe can transmit about 1.15 kW of heat with a delta T of 5C so that would place a limit on each radiators output if it wasnt replaced. If you know the heat loss for each room you could check if that is enough. Have a look at this link:

https://www.heatgeek.com/does-my-pipework-need-upgrading-for-a-heat-pump-with-cheat-sheet/


House-3 bed partial stone bungalow, 5kW Samsung Gen 6 ASHP (Self install)
6.9 kWp of PV
5kWh DC coupled battery
Blog: https://thegreeningofrosecottage.weebly.com/
Heatpump Stats: http://heatpumpmonitor.org/system/view?id=60


   
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 Chansug
(@chansug)
Active Member Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 22
Topic starter 26/01/2025 9:33 pm  

@bontwoody But I thought all heat pumps are designed to 50c specification, am I wrong in assuming that? All quotes i received so far are designed to 50C specs so I thought that is standard.

Also, the HG install won't save me any money as it costs the same as the last quote who are upgrading the microbore to 15mm for the same cost. 

And, I will not attempt to upgrade my pipework, too out of reach for my minimalist DIY skills. 


Currently seeking quotes for Heat Pump.
4 bedroom single storey detached house with 8.6kw solar panels and Solaredge 10kwh battery.
Also drive an electric car so on Octopus Go tariff.


   
ReplyQuote



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