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Air to Air heat pump for a flat ? An improvement on Electric Ceiling Heating.

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by mjr 3 years ago
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 heat-pump-newbie
(@heat-pump-newbie)
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Topic starter 16/11/2022 11:40 pm   [#598]

I'm looking at a flat to purchase and rent out. I've come across one that has Electric Ceiling Heating. I've never heard of this before and read that it was used in the 70s/early 80s. Not surprisingly all the flats in the block with an up to date EPC all are rated at E. They also have an off peak immersion for hot water. Does anyone have any experience with this type of heating ? It sounds horribly expensive and possibly a bit useless, though all the flats still have it.

In an effort to improve the heating I was wondering if an A2A heat pump could be bolted on the outside wall of the flat if it wasn't too obtrusive ? Any thoughts ?

 



   
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A2A Ceiling
 heat-pump-newbie
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Topic starter 17/11/2022 3:08 pm  

@derek-m please can you post a photo of your A2A heat pump outdoor unit ?



   
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 HughF
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17/11/2022 3:25 pm  

I was under the impression that planning regulations prevented the addition of a2a units ok blocks of flats? To prevent the eyesore that is all too prevalent the world over.


Off grid on the isle of purbeck
2.4kW solar, 15kWh Seplos Mason, Outback power systems 3kW inverter/charger, solid fuel heating with air/air for shoulder months, 10 acres of heathland/woods.

My wife’s house: 1946 3 bed end of terrace in Somerset, ASHP with rads + UFH, triple glazed, retrofit IWI in troublesome rooms, small rear extension.


   
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 heat-pump-newbie
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Topic starter 17/11/2022 4:29 pm  

Yes - that's a very fair point @hughf - what a shame they can't look unobtrusive ! Though I still would like to see one.

The ceiling heating in the flats I've just seen is made by ESWA and only scores "Very Poor" on the EPC which gives the whole flat an E rating. I'd probably need to improve this in the long term, an E is the minimum now for letting but I would imagine one day it'll need to be nearer a C.



   
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Jeff
 Jeff
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17/11/2022 4:47 pm  

You could look at high heat retention storage heater as many of these models are listed in the EPC tool and will improve the rating. 

I can't vouch for the quality or impact on EPC rating but there are stand alone heat pumps with no external parts, just two vents, all the tech is internal. No idea if the EPC recognises those. 

Are we sure about flats? 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/heat-pumps/planning-permission-air-source-heat-pump

These permitted development rights apply to the installation, alteration or replacement of an air source heat pump on a house or block of flats, or within the curtilage (garden or grounds) of a house or block of flats, including on a building within that curtilage. A block of flats must consist wholly of flats (e.g. should not also contain commercial premises).

I assume @transparent may know something about the permission for flats and what that means in practice

You could look at the large government trial as this included some flats but of course you might find there were limits about where they were sited

https://es.catapult.org.uk/news/electrification-of-heat-trial-finds-heat-pumps-suitable-for-all-housing-types/



   
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 Derek M
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17/11/2022 6:56 pm  

Posted by: @hughf
↑

I was under the impression that planning regulations prevented the addition of a2a units ok blocks of flats? To prevent the eyesore that is all too prevalent the world over.

Reading the information supplied by Jeff, it would appear that heat pumps are allowed on flats. I would suggest that Newbie contact the local planning department for clarification.

 



   
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 Derek M
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17/11/2022 7:02 pm  

Posted by: @heat-pump-newbie
↑

@derek-m please can you post a photo of your A2A heat pump outdoor unit ?

I will obtain a photo when it stops raining and it is not dark, because I am afraid of the dark. 🙄 

You must also promise not to reveal my location to any of the 'supermodels' who keep chasing after me. My wife gets very annoyed, which also frightens me. 😧 

 



   
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 mjr
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18/11/2022 3:15 pm  

Is it possible to mount an A2A in a recess so only the grille is showing. I worked in a (1960s) conservation area building where that was done,and I've seen it in historic buildings abroad.



   
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 Derek M
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18/11/2022 4:42 pm  

Posted by: @mjr
↑

Is it possible to mount an A2A in a recess so only the grille is showing. I worked in a (1960s) conservation area building where that was done,and I've seen it in historic buildings abroad.

Just like an A2W heat pump, you need a good flow of fresh air through the outdoor unit. I do believe it is possible to get systems that are located indoors and have ducting for the flow and return air.

 



   
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 Derek M
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18/11/2022 4:49 pm  

Posted by: @heat-pump-newbie
↑

@derek-m please can you post a photo of your A2A heat pump outdoor unit ?

Hi Newbie,

Here are the photo's you requested.

1668785920566
1668785920548

 



   
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 heat-pump-newbie
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Topic starter 18/11/2022 6:49 pm  

Thanks Derek. That's a very neat looking unit - much smaller than my Daikin. I don't think that would offend anyone ! Particularly if it was on a whitewashed wall (which it would have been in the case I was considering).

I've decided not to go ahead this time, but it's very useful to know what can be done. Thanks.



   
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 mjr
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18/11/2022 7:33 pm  

Posted by: @derek-m
↑

Just like an A2W heat pump, you need a good flow of fresh air through the outdoor unit

Yes, the unit was much smaller than the recess, with the rest of the grille being basically an intake for the rear of the unit.



   
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