@kev-m Unfortunately you are Oh- So-Wrong. If the builders had followed the building regulations over the last 30 years, you may be right, but they have not. On an estate, no 2 houses will have the same heat loss, even though they have been built by the same builder at the same time.

Posted by: @heacol

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@kev-m Unfortunately you are Oh- So-Wrong. If the builders had followed the building regulations over the last 30 years, you may be right, but they have not. On an estate, no 2 houses will have the same heat loss, even though they have been built by the same builder at the same time.

I think that you will find that Kev was referring to the basic design, equipment type and system layout, which in most cases are independent of the actual heat loss.

Most standard homes, I feel, would fall into a small number of categories, radiators throughout, mixture of radiators and UFH, and only UFH.

A radiator only design would require a heat pump, which may be with or without an internal water pump. Heat pumps without an internal water pump would therefore require an external one. A choice of one 3-way valve or two 2-way valves for changeover from CH to DHW and back. A suitably sized water tank or SUNamp unit, and suitably sized radiators based upon the room by room heat loss calculations.

A radiator and UFH design would require a heat pump, which may be with or without an internal water pump. Heat pumps without an internal water pump would therefore require an external one. A choice of one 3-way valve or two 2-way valves for changeover from CH to DHW and back. A suitably sized water tank or SUNamp unit, and suitably sized radiators based upon the room by room heat loss calculations. The UFH system would require additional water pump(s) and a mixing valve, to ensure that temperature limits are not exceeded.

A UFH only design would require a heat pump, which may be with or without an internal water pump. Heat pumps without an internal water pump would therefore require an external one. A choice of one 3-way valve or two 2-way valves for changeover from CH to DHW and back. A suitably sized water tank or SUNamp unit, and suitably sized UFH system based upon the room by room heat loss calculations. There should not be a requirement for any secondary water pumps with the UFH, since the maximum water temperature can be limited by the heat pump controller.

It should be quite feasible to add data to a heat loss calculation spreadsheet, such that it would provide a list of suitably sized heat pumps, from which the homeowner could choose. The selected choice would then indicate whether an external water pump is required or not.

A suitable spreadsheet could further be developed to calculate the size of water pump, based upon the size and layout of the building along with pipework sizes, which could highlight any problem areas.

Heat emitter sizing could also be identified to ensure as balanced a system as possible is installed.

Obviously, the physical location of the various items of equipment, would be for the installer and home owner to agree upon, with any problems being highlighted and hopefully resolved.

It is not necessary to re-invent the wheel with every installation.

@derek-m Oh I wish. Unfortunately, we follow behind a myriad of idiots that blow your assumptions out the water.

Posted by: @heacol

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@kev-m Unfortunately you are Oh- So-Wrong. If the builders had followed the building regulations over the last 30 years, you may be right, but they have not. On an estate, no 2 houses will have the same heat loss, even though they have been built by the same builder at the same time.

@Derek-M understood what I meant.  I wasn't referring to heat losses, I was referring to standard system designs for different situations that could be applied, with some adjustments, by suitably qualified and trained installers/designers.

I do think there is a real need for what you are doing, However, treating every installation as bespoke and requiring every designer and installer to be an expert capable of designing a system from scratch won't work and isn't necessary. Experts do need to be involved, but not at the individual installation level. 

IMO of course. 

@kev-m I understand where you are coming from, but it is wishful thinking. The industry did try to do exactly what you are asking and came up with the buffer tank, system separation and third party thermostat model. This is now destroying the industry as there is a huge increase in running cost and performance levels for this comprise. Heating, or cooling in any form is a bespoke industry as no 2 houses are the same and no 2 people want the same thing. There is a long way to get it right, but we have to train the installers as well as possible, and hopefully we can use technology to pick up the slack.

@heacol 

fair enough, although that sounds like an attempt at a one size fits all model, which isn't right.

Good luck with what you're doing; the industry certainly needs it.

Posted by: @kev-m

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@heacol 

fair enough, although that sounds like an attempt at a one size fits all model, which isn't right.

Good luck with what you're doing; the industry certainly needs it.

 

Just to be clear, the above comment refers to "The industry did try to do exactly what you are asking and came up with the buffer tank, system separation and third party thermostat model." not what you are doing!!

@morgan Yuk. that don't sound good.

@heacol you sound so like me.

@ken-bone what doesn’t?

As @heacol says, some of us already have been installing low temp, heat pump ready systems for years. 

I have put design and efficiency over the so called regulations on many systems, open loop, no buffer, using the heat pump controller etc. 

Its in the heating industry's benefits, of trying to sell you another over complicated, over controlled, over engineered system.

@ken-bone you might want to mention your working area as folk are struggling to find installers to respond to enquiries for surveys and quotes.