Sorry to hear that. 

When you say the company was a subcontractor, subcontractor to who?  The company that took the money from whoever paid is responsible in law even if they subbed it out!  

I can't advise on complaining (because the experience of many here suggest it's quite likely to be a waste of time) but if you share what the problems are that you experience and what the engineer said was wrong, as well as some details of house and installation, I might be able to suggest ways forward.  Personally I think that on situations like this, self help is often the best help.  Frequently when broken down problems aren't as intractable as they first seem.

I would probably in any case suggest contacting Grant and being persistent, they won't want their reputation damaged.

The installer managing all the work was EnergySmart.  I didnt realise it at the time but the company who did the actual work of installation was called Building for Humanity who I believe have gone out of business. 

When I tried to get a service done, some of the problems pointed out were an incorrect positioning of the heat pump, too close to an exterior wall,  It wasnt mounted on a solid surface, just on gravel.  Poor exterior insulation and none at all where pipes went through an exterior wall.  Incorrectly fitted controls.  No system filtration.  System running on microbore pipework when I was told originally it would be changed.  Radiators were changed but we are lucky to get to 30deg C radiator temp.  No proper commissioning or handover carried out.  We were never given an MCS Cert for the installation, I have just had to obtain that seperately.  

I have tried Grant initially but the response was basically they have no control of poor installation issues.

All a bit of a nightmare!

Sorry to hear that.  Quite a lot of that (except the microbore pipework which may or may not actually need changing) is fairly easy to fix, but some is more difficult.  Some may be mischief making ie not a real issue.  BTW the reason for changing radiators is so that they can run cool whilst still giving out enough heat, so you shouldn't necessarily expect them to get particularly hot.

If you want to fix this you will need to get more specific.  This is the case whether you attempt some self help or want to escalate a complaint.

1. Who actually paid money to who (ie who was the contract between)?  If you dont know that, who did you sign a document with and what did it say?

2. Leaving aside what you have been told by someone who may be motivated to rubbish the system, can we focus on the user experience.  What actual problems are you experiencing with heating, eg are you warm enough when the heat pump is left on 24x7 or not?  What other problems are you directly experiencing?  Please be specific if you want advice.

Ask one of the mods to message me and I will put you in contact with someone who went through the same situation. 

Thanks JamesPa.  I think the problems started from the original design. There is EnergySmart saying that they will replace the microbore pipework and then the installers who said it didn't need doing.  I understand a system can be run on microbore but what adaptions are needed and how do I know this has been taken into account?  I also understand why the radiators have been changed to double panel units, but we are lucky to get a surface temperature of any more than 28 to 29Deg C.  And in general the house (it is actually a stone built converted chapel) does not feel as warm a it used to.  We very rarely get a temperature of more than 19deg C on the controller, low 20s was the previous norm.

Project management of the installation was poor.  The team from Building for Humanity did the installation work.  I did have to call them back a few weeks later because there is some sort of expansion vessel in the system.  Instead of being mounted in a proper mounting bracket (which are available) it was cable tied to an anchor in the wall, very precariously.

After the installation was complete, along came an electrician to wire it up.  Job done, switched on, but no final commissioning visit to make sure it is set up and running correctly and to explain how it works.  I fell into the trap of setting the timing system to run like it was operating a combi boiler, but after buying the Bodge Buster book I saw recommended on here that I realised that was the wrong way to operate it.  Having it simmering away in the background so to speak does give a better result.

The installers never gave any info about service requirements, which is why I looked for someone myself, on the Grant website.  I understand your point about mischief making but I think the comments raised about why a service could not be done because of the installation standards are valid.

The cost was paid by Durham County Council on an Eco4 warm homes scheme triggered by my wife's health issues.  Now we have a not quite so warm house.  Even though paid by someone else..that should not be an excuse for a lesser standard of service or installation.

Domestic Hot Water is an issue as well.  Sometimes it is fine, most of the time not quite as hot as it was from the gas fired combi boiler, other times..none at all.  There is an immersion heater but the switch is in the garage by the system.  A little bit of good planning would have been to extend this into the house so we don't have to go outside and into the garage to switch it on.

Isn't there some sort of adjudication system or third party audit that can come along, have a look at a system and say either yes, it is has been installed correctly and is operating as it should, or the opposite, poorly designed and installed and not capable of operating properly unless the identified points are addressed?

Thanks

(PS to be fair, EnergySmart did have some very good staff mainly a couple of plasters who did a great job finishing off after roof insulation fitted. Not an easy house to do as they needed internal scaffolding!)

@wesleyp1874 

OK so the installation was paid for by Durham County Council.  Do you know who they paid?

However lets focus first on you.   From what you say this is quite possibly easily fixed by some simple adjustments that you can make, but to be certain we need a bit more info:

You say

• the DHW works most of the time.  Please ignore the fact it isn't as warm as previously - thats actually a good sign - it means its been set up with a thought to efficiency.  The real question is - is it warm enough and if not for what is it not warm enough and how far out is it.  Please describe the symptoms and circumstamnces?
• The house rarely gets to more than 19C.  How do you run your heating.  The optimum way is 24x7 with TRVs and thermostats turned to maximum.  You then adjust the weather compensation curve so the house is at the right temperature.  Are you running it 24x7 or are you (or a thermostat somewhere) turning it on and off?  Have you turned your thermostats and TRVs up to full?  Do you know what your heat curve/weather compensation settings are?

Honestly from what you say I think its quite probable you dont have a major problem that cant be easily fixed by control tweaks, but to be certain you need to provide more info.

What model of Grant heat pump do you have exactly and do you have the design documentation for the system?

Posted by: @wesleyp1874

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Isn't there some sort of adjudication system or third party audit that can come along, have a look at a system and say either yes, it is has been installed correctly and is operating as it should, or the opposite, poorly designed and installed and not capable of operating properly unless the identified points are addressed?

Not really, and even if they did its unlikely to help based on what we see on this forum.  There are complaint routes but they rarely succeed, so lets cross that bridge if we identify there is an actual problem that cant be fixed by some simple tweaks to the controls. 

If you answer the questions in bold italics we can take the next step.

Hi James

Going through the bold bits:

1.) As far as I know..DCC paid direct to EnergySmart

2.) Most of the time DHW is satisfactory.  Occasionally it is not quite so warm but occasionally it has been cold.  A neighbour with a similiar installation helped my wife out by getting someone in to adjust something..I wasnt there at the time just my wife so not exactly sure what was done.

3.) There are no TRVs on any radiators, all are opened up.  The controller is an EPH CP4 situated in the open hallway in the middle of the house.  Set in 5/2 mode.  Settings are:

Day 1 to 5                                 Day 6 to 7

1   0500   21deg C                      0700   21deg C

2   0900   19deg C                      1000   19deg C

3   1600   22deg C                      1500   21deg C

4   1700   21deg C                      1700   21deg C

5   2200   19deg C                      2120   19deg C

6   2300   15deg C                      2300   16deg C

Do you think these are a bit up and down ?  The heat pump isn't running continuously 24/7, but should it to be more efficient?

6.) Weather Compensation Curve.  I asked an engineer from EnergySmart who came out to check if this had been set.  Never really got a positive answer yes or no and I'm not sure how to check.  All I can tell you is that there is a Grant CMR-2613 control unit in the garage next to the water cylinder,  showing an outdoor temp and room temp (although this is the room temp in the garage).  I don't know how to check for myself if the WCC has been set up to be honest (still not being very high up the learning curve but a bit higher than when I first started).

7.)  The Heat Pump is a Grant Aerona HPID13R32

Thanks for your help and I hope the above helps

James will be along to comment I’m sure.  In the meantime could you tell us what tariff you are on and if you are trying to take advantage of low rate periods for heating, and the timings of low rate periods.  The schedule is a bit too much up-and-down really and I suspect it will struggle to heat from 15c to 21c in the mornings; any recommendations can be made in light of your tariff.  James will advise better.

Thanks for the excellent description, if only everyone was as clear and concise as you!  I am encouraged by both what you have said and how you have said it.  I think its almost certain that you can get your heating working satisfactorily without changing the microbore or indeed anything else major; you clearly have a good enough grasp of what you have and the ability to describe it well so you are quite capable of making the necessary adjustments and the current settings leave plenty of scope for improvement. Just take it one step at a time and you should, with just a bit of luck, be OK.

Can I suggest you download the grant controller user and installer manual here.  The user manual is useless, its section 8 (operation) in the installer manual that you will need.  This, confusingly, does also deal with some user settings (Grant, who are originally manufacturers of oil boilers, have historically been totally muddle headed about controls, so expect some confusion unfortunately!).

Can I also suggest you read this introduction to heat pumps, it should help dispel some myths and give you a good grounding.

@andrewj is spot on, please do advise what electricity tarrif you are on.

Before we move onto controls the one thing that worries me significantly about the list of problems is the lack of system filtration.  This is serious and will eventually lead to a blocked heat exchanger which is an expensive fault.  The Grant installation pack comes with a magnetic filter looking like this or similar.  Can you have a look round the system and check that there really isn't one or something like it.  While you are looking round perhaps you could take and post some pictures, particularly in the area of any tanks. 

I would also, if you haven't already, contact DCC and complain, listing the specific faults that were identified by the Grant engineer, explaining that MCS and Trustmark are unable to help and asking them what you should do next. Also ask who their contract was with, this is important because, if it was with EnergySmart, who are still trading, there should be recourse to them notwithstanding that the actual installer has ceased trading.  As DCC paid, they are the customer with such legal rights as they may have, unless you also signed a contract (did you?).  Once we know what they say there may be further steps but it has to start here as they paid the cash!

Depending on DCCs response it may, if you have the money, be worth paying for a filter to be installed as it will save a lot downstream.  Lets see what they say.  

In the mean time we can improve your actual heating.  The Grant engineer is correct that the controls are unsuitable (the problems being the EPH-CP4 which is superfluous to requirements, and the Grant controller (which is called a remote controller so the clue is in the name) - which should be in the house!).  But never mind, this is a common problem (because a large proportion of heating 'engineers' don't understand heating) and there are work arounds.

Starting with DHW you say its OK most of the time but occasionally not warm.  I presume it basically runs out on a day when you have used a lot of water.  If I am right (please confirm) there are three things you can do namely

1. Increase the temperature to which the DHW is heated, which will be done on the Grant controller   Often people set this to 48 which is a good compromise, it would be good to know what it is currently set to.  I wouldn't set it above 55.

2. Increase the number of times during the day it is re-heated.  This is probably set on the EPH judging by the Grant Manual, but may be set on the Grant controller - you will need to do some investigation

3. Use a DHW boost function if one is available

If you have a look around the controllers you may be able to work it out, otherwise tell us what you find and I am sure I or someone can advise you.  Could you check your DHW tank and see if there is a tank sensor either in a pocket or strapped to the side, and take a picture.

Moving onto heating, you are spot on that the settings are (far) too up and down.  They are also largely pointless because your house isnt going to respond in the way programmed!.  They will have the effect of making your house too cold (as you report) and probably costing you more to run. 

Its a bit too late in the season to optimise this and a full optimisation involves tweaking the weather curve on the Grant controller.  For now, if you are currently not getting warm enough, I would be tempted either: just to cancel the 2300 setting so its targeting 19 overnight, or (only if you haven't got a time of use tarif) cancel all the settings and set it to 20 or 21 constantly.  This is just an interim to avoid changing too much at once, eventually you will probably want to discontinue use of this piece of equipment!

That should get you started.  There is more to do but best to take it one step at a time.

Finally can I say that, if you can get this right, which I think you eventually can, you should end up with a system that is far more comfortable than a boiler would ever be.  Its going to take some tweaking but should be possible.

Hope that helps, please ask questions where you are uncertain, there is not such thing as a 'stupid' question!

PS - additional info re dhw -  Having looked a bit more in depth into the manual its likely that there is a stat on the tank which sets the temperature to which the DHW is heated and the EPH sets the time for which it is heated.  If you can confirm that this is the case (or not) and what the current values are it should be possible to work out what to do with the DHW to avoid it running out.  

Thanks all..will have a good look at this later but in the meantime my supplier is E.On and I'm on what they call NextPumped Fixed which has a peak tarriff between 4 and 7pm.  Off peak between 6am and 4pm and 7 till 10pm, and Super Off Peak between 10pm and 6am.  

Posted by: @wesleyp1874

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Thanks all..will have a good look at this later but in the meantime my supplier is E.On and I'm on what they call NextPumped Fixed which has a peak tarriff between 4 and 7pm.  Off peak between 6am and 4pm and 7 till 10pm, and Super Off Peak between 10pm and 6am.  

Great.  In that case I would definitely cancel the overnight setback.  Its almost certainly costing you money as well as making you cold! 

I would start with a setback (effectively turn off) between 4 and 7pm only, 20/21 the rest of the time, perhaps a bit of a boost for 3 hours before 4pm to 'carry you over' the peak period.  I would even consider raising the target at night, but definitely not setting back.  If you need to turn down the temp in your bedrooms do so on the LSVs (or fit decorator caps on the old TRV valves if they are still there, which are easier to adjust than LSVs).

FWIW I, like many here, dont bother with set backs at all, just keep a constant target 24x7 and have the bedrooms permanently a bit cooler.  I have 5 hours of cheap leccy at night, and have considered increasing the target temp during those hours but haven't implemented. I heat DHW at night because that's the most expensive operation so, even though its a bit less efficient to heat it at night, its going to work out cheaper.  My legionella cycle is also scheduled at night (check yours - I think it will be a separate timer near the tank in your case)