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The new heat pump grant – boiler upgrade scheme (BUS)

 
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Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHPs)
Last Post by cathodeRay 4 years ago
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 mjr
(@mjr)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 301
14/03/2022 2:22 pm  

@grahamh OK. I bet they don't answer us plebs. https://twitter.com/mjray/status/1503358143983665153

@saz This does not seem to be a new problem with heat pumps. It's like the bad old days of student slumlords locking the heating controls to stop tenants "overstressing" it (by heating their rooms to 19-20°c in winter) and saying it would cause shorter boiler life. It surprises me that the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018 requirement that "heating should be controllable by the occupants" has not ended up in court yet: https://medium.com/adviser/britains-most-famous-thermostat-what-does-the-law-say-about-a-tenant-s-right-to-control-the-951322abfe49



   
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 Kev M
(@kev-m)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1276
14/03/2022 3:35 pm  

@mjr 

I doubt @saz's ASHP would break any laws as the slumlord regulations are aimed at people whose health would be at risk because their rented property can't be heated adequately.  Not being able to afford it won't come into it; if it did the thousands of rented properties with direct electric heating would be ahead of any ASHP in the queue for the courts. 

The COP can't be anything other than a theoretical one as it's very hard to measure the real one accurately.  What I think it may be (I don't know) is the same number that is used to calculate RHI.  That uses the SCOP from here for your ASHP at your design flow temperature. I assume the SCOPs in that list are provided by the manufacturers, use some sort of average of the UK climate and conform to certain standards.  That assumption works pretty well spot on for for me.  It's about the closest you're going to get without measuring installations retrospectively.

I suspect the gap is because the RHI workload won't just stop on 31 March and it's the same people who'll be running the new scheme.

I'd be interested in what Ofgem say though.

Kev



   
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Saz
 Saz
(@saz)
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Posts: 119
14/03/2022 4:32 pm  

@kev-m My heatpump does keep breaking down though, repeatedly over the winter and I have been left boiling kettles for hot water and having to use an electric radiator more times than you can shake a stick at. Time will tell if the most recent repair (the flushing out of an injected sealer) will mean yet more leaks or not.



   
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Graham Hendra
 Graham Hendra
(@grahamh)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 110
Topic starter 14/03/2022 4:42 pm  

@saz your heat pump should not break down, have you asked the installer back? like all technologies if its installed well it works seemlessly if its not it works badly. there are very few crap heat pumps out there 


Heat pump builder


   
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Saz
 Saz
(@saz)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 119
14/03/2022 4:42 pm  

@mjr Well I will be challenging it at every turn, as I can't afford not to. I'm thoroughly fed up after what I've had to endure for 9 odd years and I'm thinking of all the other tenants about to get heatpumps who are totally unaware of the reality and the unfairness of the current state of play.



   
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Saz
 Saz
(@saz)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 119
14/03/2022 4:48 pm  

@grahamh Hi Graham, they have been back repeatedly to sort out pressure drops/leaks etc. The last thing they did (well-meaning I suppose) was inject sealer into the system which led to a spectacular break down. I just cannot get an answer as top why install this TYPE of heatpump in a newbuild with good insulation, UFH and decent sized rads?



   
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Graham Hendra
 Graham Hendra
(@grahamh)
Estimable Member Member Professional Installer
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 110
Topic starter 14/03/2022 4:52 pm  

thats madness no plumbing system is supposed to leak , ever. sounds like its time to get someone good in. where are you i might be able to recommend someone, and what heat pump is it 


Heat pump builder


   
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Saz
 Saz
(@saz)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 119
14/03/2022 5:43 pm  

@grahamh And 'there's the rub' as they say Graham, as a tenant it isn't my call as to whether or not another company is sent to look at it, it's my landlord's call and I have repeatedly asked for someone totally independent and experienced to come out and cast an eye over the whole set up but to no avail, probably due to the expense. I'm desperate for this. Don't even get me started on the heat loss calc I have been supplied with...



   
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Graham Hendra
 Graham Hendra
(@grahamh)
Estimable Member Member Professional Installer
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 110
Topic starter 14/03/2022 5:54 pm  

whats the unit? and where is it? i might know a good Samaritan 


Heat pump builder


   
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Saz
 Saz
(@saz)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 119
14/03/2022 8:04 pm  

@grahamh I'll PM you if that's ok? I'd need to get my LL's permission for someone to come and look at it 😏 I'd be grateful for any remote help/guidance in the meantime though?



   
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 mjr
(@mjr)
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Joined: 4 years ago
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14/03/2022 8:58 pm  
Posted by: @kev-m

I doubt @saz's ASHP would break any laws as the slumlord regulations are aimed at people whose health would be at risk because their rented property can't be heated adequately.  Not being able to afford it won't come into it; if it did the thousands of rented properties with direct electric heating would be ahead of any ASHP in the queue for the courts. 

I'm not so sure. It seems like the tenant should have control, not be locked out of it, whether you rent a home with ASHP or one with direct electric heating. At least you should know what you're going to rent, not be surprised by being banned from changing flow temperatures which can make the difference between an ASHP being nasty or nice.



   
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 Kev M
(@kev-m)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1276
14/03/2022 10:50 pm  
Posted by: @mjr
Posted by: @kev-m

I doubt @saz's ASHP would break any laws as the slumlord regulations are aimed at people whose health would be at risk because their rented property can't be heated adequately.  Not being able to afford it won't come into it; if it did the thousands of rented properties with direct electric heating would be ahead of any ASHP in the queue for the courts. 

I'm not so sure. It seems like the tenant should have control, not be locked out of it, whether you rent a home with ASHP or one with direct electric heating. At least you should know what you're going to rent, not be surprised by being banned from changing flow temperatures which can make the difference between an ASHP being nasty or nice.

I agree with you that it should be like you say.  It's just under cold, hard legal scrutiny, what's right doesn't matter, it's what's the regulations say. 



   
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