Yes but...Octopus are an energy company so are in a position to manipulate price if it makes other technology choices easier.

And anyway the SCOP of 2.72 quoted is at FT65, at that FT what do you expect?  SCOP at 45 is 3.36, and 3.06 at 55, which is particularly interesting as 55C is the new max design temperature for CH system under building regs and also a FT where many retrofits would require few or no emitter upgrades.  All very reasonable IMHO.

@jamespa Those figures are indeed somewhat better! I wonder if the same design heat pump would be efficient at even lower temperature such as 30 - 35 or might we be in the realms of short cycling to accomplish this I wonder? I think their aim is compatibility with existing rads and no additional work being required though. As you imply, they may well have a new special tariff in mind for any OE heat pump installations. Regards, Toodles.

SCOP at 35 is quoted as 3.98, but from posts here and elsewhere I have the impression that Octopus are targeting conventional retrofits, so 35 may be a rarity. 

I also have the impression from the literature that the Cosy comes with some (presumably remote) monitoring capability, so they are in a position to play quite sophisticated games with tariffs if they choose, particularly as they (presumably) know the house temperature.  The opportunities for data harvesting and clever tariffs (including total cost 'guarantees') are considerable here, and it does seem to be an Octopus 'thing' to explore this territory.

@jamespa I’m sure that makes total sense with new builds under modern building regs.

i am concerned about anyone in cold, drafty, poorly insulated rental properties. The landlord changes to a heat pump at minimal capital cost to them but then the poor tenant is let with a much higher heating bill. Outcome =more fuel poverty and campaigns (even more?) against heat pumps. 

Posted by: @judith

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@jamespa I’m sure that makes total sense with new builds under modern building regs.

i am concerned about anyone in cold, drafty, poorly insulated rental properties. The landlord changes to a heat pump at minimal capital cost to them but then the poor tenant is let with a much higher heating bill. Outcome =more fuel poverty and campaigns (even more?) against heat pumps. 

I understand the risk, but unless you compel all heat pumps to be 16kW plus, the possibility of undersizing to save capital cost is always present.  That rule would make no sense technically, so we have to rely on the installer to assess the demand and suitability. 

The evidence suggests that installers tend to oversize not undersize and avoid many properties that are totally suitable, so I am not sure that the risk you are concerned about is material (and even if it were, how it could be mitigated without clobbering the whole market).

Just had another survey as I was interested in the Cosy 6 and the current Daiken model just looked to big. Now told that I cant have one as I have an air brick near to where I wanted It and my patio door is too close. It wasn't too close for the Daiken model.? Is my survey guy just making this up. 

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Just had another survey as I was interested in the Cosy 6 and the current Daiken model just looked to big. Now told that I cant have one as I have an air brick near to where I wanted It and my patio door is too close. It wasn't too close for the Daiken model.? Is my survey guy just making this up. 

R290 is flammable so lots of restrictions on placement, so unlikely the guy made it up.

@johnmo Indeed R32 is used in the Daikin heat pumps and thus, though I have a window, a door and drains, I could have the Daikin fitted; I could not have a Vaillant in this location however due to their use of R290 - I take it that the Octopus Cosy 6 must use something similar. As far as I know, the Cosy 6 is an HT model too.😒 Regards, Toodles.

@johnmo Thanks for the info, the guy said it was propane. Surely this gas is under pressure and any leak would go to atmosphere. Also it's heavier than air and wouldn't leak into the house. I've cancelled the whole ASHP thing now as retrofitting just isn't viable and I can't see it will ever be anywhere.

Posted by: @Anonymous

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Also it's heavier than air and wouldn't leak into the house.

I think because it's heavier it lingers and pools.

So they have to follow manufacturer guidelines on where to install.

Trouble MCS and big grants, the prices are just inflated. Other than you really needing a new cylinder and possibly some radiators upgrades the price should be no different from a good gas boiler.

My Octopus surveyor said the cosy 6 was intended for smaller houses but because of the R290 restrictions it is very difficult to find a space for it. The restrictions do seem draconian as it is outside in fresh air. Apparently there are ice making machines using R290 allowed inside, although using far less gas. With propane having an explosive range of 2% to 9.5% that still seems a danger.

Posted by: @jancold

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My Octopus surveyor said the cosy 6 was intended for smaller houses but because of the R290 restrictions it is very difficult to find a space for it. The restrictions do seem draconian as it is outside in fresh air. Apparently there are ice making machines using R290 allowed inside, although using far less gas. With propane having an explosive range of 2% to 9.5% that still seems a danger.

I have heard of the restrictions being misinterpreted, for example under a window is permitted (according to the diagrams) but some seem to say its not.

However I do agree that, by the time you take into account drains, airbricks and other openings, they can be quite restrictive, particularly since we currently pipe into our houses an unlimited supply of methane.