Posted by: @editor

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But if we’re serious about heat pumps scaling to 600,000 installs a year,

1.5M needs to be the target, being the number of gas boilers fitted each year.

Posted by: @editor

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And then there’s the installer landscape: plenty of very good and even great engineers out there, but also many who believe they’re good when, in practice, their installs are poor (classic Dunning–Kruger effect). The problem is the system doesn’t filter those out and homeowners are left to pick up the pieces

Well said.  There appears to be no mechanism to filter out the duffers, not even free market competition because mcs so effeclively protects installers at the expense of consumers

Posted by: @editor

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 we need to stop pretending the framework is working. 

The problem I perceive is motivation to do this.  Installers, even the good ones, are happy because their order books are full.  The industry guardians, MCS are the problem not the solution.  Government probably doesn't know, if it does know is unlikely to understand, and even if it did understand would have to fight the 'experts' in the industry to change anything, so is unlikely to succeed.  Finally the oil industry is over the moon.  The heat pump manufacturers probably have most to lose in the long term, but are pretty remote.  How is this going to change?

Posted by: @editor

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Every circulation pump removed and replaced with a prototype delta-T modulating pump

Can we have a photo of that please?

And a link to an online specification would be nice too 😍 

Posted by: @jamespa

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There appears to be no mechanism to filter out the duffers

The manufacturers must be pretty frustrated with the poor quality of installation.

When there's a need for so many installers, it's difficult to terminate those who aren't up to the job.

In the end, it's the execution which matters.

Posted by: @jamespa

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Government probably doesn't know, if it does know is unlikely to understand

But we should at least try to make our MPs aware.

This is a classic scenario when you need an effective Opposition.

I also take up many opportunities to raise the issue of poor installations by responding to relevant Government Consultations,
and 'Calls for Evidence' by the Commons Select Committee. It's their role to challenge departmental policy.

Both of the above receive very few 'reports' or submissions from ordinary members of the public.
When we do bother to say something, it's usually very welcome.

@editor

Posted by: @editor

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And then there’s the installer landscape: plenty of very good and even great engineers out there, but also many who believe they’re good when, in practice, their installs are poor (classic Dunning–Kruger effect). The problem is the system doesn’t filter those out, and homeowners are left to pick up the pieces.

Yes, we all suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect.  It is so easy to think we understand something, when we don't - especially when it looks similar to something that we do understand well, such as a gas boiler.  

The landscape of installers and customers is enormous. The challenge is to find communication and influencing methods that scale well for minimum effort, which is not easy.  Your YouTube videos and forum are excellent vehicles for doing that, provided that people look at them.

It would help if we could at least influence the major players - e.g. big installers such as Octopus, manufacturers, trade associations...  My impression is that you are doing all of that already.  

Is there some way that we could help?

Posted by: @editor

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It’s been a seriously intensive week and Brendon’s grafted through a mountain of work.

• Buffer tank is gone: now repurposed as a volumiser.
• All zoning stripped out: we’re now running fully open loop.
• Every circulation pump removed and replaced with a prototype delta-T modulating pump (18m head and an absolute beast).
• FRVs fitted: just need a final tweak this week to fine-tune volumes once Brendon has done his calculations.
• UFH has been balanced

We do have one niggle left: the heat pump controller is dropping into standby after finishing its hot water cycle instead of moving smoothly into central heating. I’ll be speaking with the manufacturer to get that sorted… not sure what’s causing this.

It’s been a heavy, full-on week and Brendon must be shattered! Videos will follow in the coming weeks, along with plenty of posts to help others tackle bodged installs or set up systems properly where zoning, microbore and buffers have been holding them back.

This is a very interesting project, thanks for documenting it here! Is the circulation pump that you mentioned above the only one in the system, or does the ASHP have one within it too? If the latter, how do the two circulating pumps work together? Or if the ASHP has a circulation pump within it, has it been deactivated or bypassed somehow?

Posted by: @editor

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Posted by: @heacol

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@editor No pressure then 🤣 🤣 

No pressure at all - the UK heating world is watching! 🤣 

 

Posted by: @transparent

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But we should at least try to make our MPs aware.

Honestly I think that's a waste of time in almost all cases.  Few MPs have the technical ability to differentiate what you say from what they hear elsewhere and anyway their only tool is to ask a question of DENZ.  Denz doubtless has some excellent people, but also doubtless employs some flunkies to give potted responses to MPs and members of the public (the flunkies soon to be replaced by AI).  I can't see how this is possibly an effective use of our time, MPs time or the Civil Service.

@rhh1, just the one pump. All other pumps have been removed and our unit (I only discovered this week) doesn’t have its own pump. So it’s the new pump that’s taking care of everything.

Sadly we’ve only seen it action for an hour because we’re now having issues starting the heat pump at all. It’s just permanently stuck in standby. Will have to wait till Monday to see if the manufacturer can assist us. 

@rhh1 Adding a second pump is not a problem, some units have a control for a second pump as this one does. When you add a second pump, it must either be Delta T controlled or, a new electronically controlled pump (almost all of them are now) set to proportional control. This will boost the flow and pressure within any sysytem, however, you must have some way of confirming the flow rate within the system, without it everything, including heat pump sizing is just a wild guess.

@heacol maybe you can figure why mines vibrating the primaries in my ceiling when you’ve finished😁.

@editor good luck with the repipe, must be able to improve 2.7.

@heacol this may be a silly question, but why would you need a second pump?

The water pump in my Grant Aerona 290 15.5kW is happily pumping the water to the 30 radiators in our house.  The technical specifications say it is capable of 40-50 litres per minute, which sounds pretty high to me.

The pumps on the Grants are beasts mine is on the lowest setting and still shoving 28 L/min through the system on full whack it was shifting over 40 L/min!

Posted by: @grahamf

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@heacol this may be a silly question, but why would you need a second pump?

The water pump in my Grant Aerona 290 15.5kW is happily pumping the water to the 30 radiators in our house.  The technical specifications say it is capable of 40-50 litres per minute, which sounds pretty high to me.