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EV tariffs - too good to be true?

 
Electricity, Tariffs, Monitoring, Electrics & Providers
Last Post by Derek M 3 years ago
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 ronin92
(@ronin92)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter 24/06/2022 10:00 pm   [#444]

I find it difficult to understand how the EV tariffs work out for the suppliers.  The price during the discount hours has been almost always above the wholesale price of electricity at those times.  Why do they do it?  Is there any prospect of these tariffs continuing in the long term?



   
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 Diverted.Energy
(@diverted-energy)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 86
29/07/2022 10:34 pm  

I personally think they'll soon be suspended.

After the Women's Euros the other night, UK electricity was 67% from gas, 4% from coal.

That's nearly 3/4 from fossil fuels. It can't carry on with gas being so expensive. It's nominally 45%, up to 55%, bit there is little 'green in the mix'.

10pm on Friday night, currently 53% Gas and coal is now constantly running at 3.5%, not just during peaks as has been until recently.

Search UK energy mix.



   
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Jeff
 Jeff
(@jeff)
Noble Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 601
30/07/2022 4:24 pm  

In the past Octopus have openly said their Go tariff is a loss leader. 

It won't be a big issue for them at the moment due to the relatively small number of customers. 

More than worth it for press coverage which will be pulling in more non EV customers. 

An investment like the agile tariff and their investment in heat pumps etc. 



   
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 Westkent
(@westkent)
Trusted Member Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 67
13/08/2023 12:37 pm  

Iv just switched from Octopus Go to the new Eon drive tariff as it gives a rate of 9.5p between midnight and 7am.

As a high mileage EV driver this suits me down to the ground 



   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
Famed Member Contributor
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 2720
13/08/2023 5:21 pm  

@westkent Not having any ‘V’, never mind an ‘EV’ as neither my wife or I have the sight to drive, I have stayed with Agile and I think this is a better deal anyway; we have battery storage and should be able to supply the Daikin ASHP and the rest of the domestic load by feeding the storage battery twice in 24 hours at relatively low unit rates. The OE ‘Compare’ figures show our usage and the average p. per kW/h rate is well below that we would pay if using ‘Cosy’ rates. On top of this of course, whilst the sun shines, we have 15 p. per kW/h coming in for all our excess energy; there are times when we can charge the battery for less than this! Regards, Toodles.


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 robl
(@robl)
Reputable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 214
14/08/2023 9:17 am  

I think as gas and oil boilers get phased out, low install cost heat storage solutions will seem too attractive on Octopus go - so I agree, Octopus won’t be able to keep it eventually.  Warmstone and other solutions (immersion in a thermal store type thing) are dependant on the cheap rate - if it went mainstream then the cheap price will evaporate.



   
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 scrchngwsl
(@scrchngwsl)
Estimable Member Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 91
14/08/2023 11:14 am  

Selling electricity below wholesale cost at any given time is surely not economical in the long run, but I'd imagine that most people aren't as "savvy" as the users of this forum, and so don't really do as much load shifting to the night, so end up using quite a lot of expensive daytime electricity. I'd imagine that this balances out a fair chunk of the loss from the cheap overnight rates. They've had a long time to figure this stuff out with older Economy 7/10 tariffs so I'd be surprised if they didn't already have something figured out for EV tariffs.

There will always be more demand in the day due to industry and business, and always more supply in the day due to solar, so there will always be a differential between day rates and night rates. I doubt they will continue be as wide as they are now indefinitely, though.


ASHP: Mitsubishi Ecodan 8.5kW
PV: 5.2kWp
Battery: 8.2kWh


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Posts: 2720
14/08/2023 1:26 pm  

@scrchngwsl I am fortunate in being retired and a ‘died in the wool’ tight Scrooge who has the inclination to exercise 1st. Class Nerdery when it comes to seeing the half hourly rates offered by the Octopus Energy Agile tariff. Yes, I agree that readers of ths forum are likely to be the more Savvy electrical consumers anyway - but I justify my tightness with the thought that the reason for the lower rates are because they are being offere when generation is cleanest and in least demand - so really I am being magnanimous in leaving the more expensive energy for others to use when they need it! ;-))) Regards, Toodles. 


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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Toodles
 Toodles
(@toodles)
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Posts: 2720
23/08/2023 4:40 pm  

I’m aware that Agile is not an ‘EV’ tariff but, has anyone else noticed the steady increase of rates during the last couple of weeks? Today we have a 65+p. Per kW/h rate for an hour and the lowest rate is near 20 p. I’m not sure what is happening affect the wholesale rate to this extent though. Regards, Toodles


Toodles, heats his home with cold draughts and cooks food with magnets.


   
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 Derek M
(@derek-m)
Illustrious Member Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4425
23/08/2023 5:17 pm  

Posted by: @toodles
↑

I’m aware that Agile is not an ‘EV’ tariff but, has anyone else noticed the steady increase of rates during the last couple of weeks? Today we have a 65+p. Per kW/h rate for an hour and the lowest rate is near 20 p. I’m not sure what is happening affect the wholesale rate to this extent though. Regards, Toodles

I can't say for certain, but one of the reasons could be due to the increase in wholesale gas prices caused by a possible strike at an LNG plant in Australia. A further reason, certainly today, could be due to low wind output, though the quoted wholesale price of electricity is still below 10p/kWh for most of the day.

Being the old cynic that I am, I suspect that there may also be a large dose of greed on the part of energy traders seeking a large Christmas bonus. The problem with the present system is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to know the prices being paid throughout the various stages from generation to final use. I suspect it is therefore very easy for companies and traders to bump up prices and blame some prospective strikers down under. It would be interesting to know if other countries are suffering similar price hikes.

 



   
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