@batpred For how long has to be the valid question. I’ve noticed a trend with uk.gov that they make policy to entice the population in a certain direction only to pull the rug out from under our feet. One policy of many that springs to mind are water meters, saves money for a couple of years only for unit rates to creep up such that you need a mortgage to flush the toilet for a #2!

Posted by: @papahuhu

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@batpred For how long has to be the valid question. I’ve noticed a trend with uk.gov that they make policy to entice the population in a certain direction only to pull the rug out from under our feet. One policy of many that springs to mind are water meters, saves money for a couple of years only for unit rates to creep up such that you need a mortgage to flush the toilet for a #2!

I am not convinced that a water meter supports your point. 
I have had one for years and so had lost track of non-metered costs, but my neighbours (pensioners like us) have recently had a meter put in and it has halved their annual bill to almost exactly what we pay. 

@toodles They still taste good when cooked using magnets!!

Posted by: @toodles

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we have no green veg in the B&S

@kevh I have vivid childhood memories of summer sprinklers, garden pools, ponds, baths and toilets that didn’t smell like a dog fox, no hosepipe bans. Never heard my parents telling us to stop wasting water. 
Not that wasting water is a good thing but when I genuinely think twice before flushing and still our bills are crazy, something is amiss. I pay more for my monthly water bill than my yearly power bill.

Many others I can think of, eg. child savings trust, diesel cars etc. its evident that the next move with power will be moving more cost to fixed billable items, about 50% of a domestic french power invoice are fixed costs.  

Posted by: @papahuhu

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@kevh I have vivid childhood memories of summer sprinklers, garden pools, ponds, baths and toilets that didn’t smell like a dog fox, no hosepipe bans. Never heard my parents telling us to stop wasting water. 
Not that wasting water is a good thing but when I genuinely think twice before flushing and still our bills are crazy, something is amiss. I pay more for my monthly water bill than my yearly power bill.

Many others I can think of, eg. child savings trust, diesel cars etc. its evident that the next move with power will be moving more cost to fixed billable items, about 50% of a domestic french power invoice are fixed costs.  

Governments of all flavours use taxation and subsidies to encourage the public to make desirable decisions BUT circumstances change and policies need to shift accordingly. 
if such shifts are NOT made then something else needs to happen...so unless we can suggest what that something else might be then we have to accept that policies do in fact shift. 
in the example of France, I don't know what options are available to cover those fixed costs, though recently the UK government DID begin to detach some from bills. 
It is easy to criticise without exploring the why's I reckon. 

Posted by: @kevh

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Posted by: @papahuhu

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@kevh I have vivid childhood memories of summer sprinklers, garden pools, ponds, baths and toilets that didn’t smell like a dog fox, no hosepipe bans. Never heard my parents telling us to stop wasting water. 
Not that wasting water is a good thing but when I genuinely think twice before flushing and still our bills are crazy, something is amiss. I pay more for my monthly water bill than my yearly power bill.

Many others I can think of, eg. child savings trust, diesel cars etc. its evident that the next move with power will be moving more cost to fixed billable items, about 50% of a domestic french power invoice are fixed costs.  

Governments of all flavours use taxation and subsidies to encourage the public to make desirable decisions BUT circumstances change and policies need to shift accordingly. 
if such shifts are NOT made then something else needs to happen...so unless we can suggest what that something else might be then we have to accept that policies do in fact shift. 
in the example of France, I don't know what options are available to cover those fixed costs, though recently the UK government DID begin to detach some from bills. 
It is easy to criticise without exploring the why's I reckon. 

 

Water meters, like their electrical counterparts, are only ensuring that customers are charged for what they use. They certainly don’t tackle how reasonable the charge is per unit.

In the case of water, it reduces the ability for water companies to hide costs; if they’re charging per litre from the tap and their network maintenance costs are auditable and visible, it becomes more difficult to charge the customer for water wasted through leakage.

@papahuhu, you mentioned sprinklers and I too have childhood memories like that, just as I have memories of 35mpg being seen as denoting an economical car. However, since then the network has not been maintained properly and so watering a lawn that doesn’t really need it using treated water from a leaky network is no longer sustainable.

Eventually, this country doesn’t have a water shortage; it has a shortage of treated water, so perhaps our delivery mechanism could do with some reexamining.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Eventually, this country doesn’t have a water shortage; it has a shortage of treated water, so perhaps our delivery mechanism could do with some reexamining.

Not to mention our building practices.  We use treated water for thin gs like flushing the toilet when we could be using grey water.  Waste water from sinks etc could be used to sprinkle the lawn.  Plenty of ways to use less.

@majordennisbloodnok 

Yes, it’s a bit mad using treated (expensive) potable quality water for anything other than what it is intended for, ie human ingestion. All changes to the water distribution system will result in inconveniences, but if they resulted in significant cost reduction they may be accepted. 

I am really mean with water, I will bang on the bathroom door if the kids are too long in the shower and yet am reasonably affluent. My united utility bill indicates we use between 1 and 2 persons water for a 5 person household. I have no idea how less affluent larger families, whom must be the major contributors to the average consumption data, are able to afford it. Likewise anyone other than the very old or sick insisting on heating their houses to 21C or above, seems similarly wasteful to me. I have far more advantageous ways of spending my resources beyond heating the streets.

Thinking about it logically, two water supplies per property - one for potable water, one for untreated water straight from the aquifer - would solve a lot of problems. Realistically, I’m well aware there would need to be a seismic shift in thinking to make that happen. I won’t hold my breath.

@majordennisbloodnok 

Its not going to happen, it takes us 20 years not to build a new runway. 
There are so many infrastructure and housing revisions required, for example we need to start recycling human and farm animal waste as we only have a couple of decades of mineable phosphate left, this is far more pressing than global warming. Without external phosphate, agricultural output (and population) is suddenly down to the levels of the 17th century.

Posted by: @majordennisbloodnok

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Thinking about it logically, two water supplies per property - one for potable water, one for untreated water straight from the aquifer - would solve a lot of problems. Realistically, I’m well aware there would need to be a seismic shift in thinking to make that happen. I won’t hold my breath.

That would be a lot of infrastrucure and is surely unnecessary.  Why not collect waste water from outlets other than a toilet locally, and reuse it, even if its only for watering plants (but preferably also for flushing the loo.)

Posted by: @jamespa

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That would be a lot of infrastrucure and is surely unnecessary.  Why not collect waste water from outlets other than a toilet locally, and reuse it, even if its only for watering plants (but preferably also for flushing the loo.)

Well, we have so many cases where rain water mixes with sewage.. Seems like even what is supposedly centrally defined is not being addressed. If they did, there would be plenty of extra water suitable for flushing loos.. Anyway, I would not be guinea pig, cannot see how disruption could be avoided!