Posted by: @batpred

↑

Posted by: @old_scientist

↑

Regarding income from arbitrage, which presumably does not fall under the microgeneration exemption as you have not generated it, some back of the envelope maths shows that someone with 30kWh of battery storage who is able to cycle their battery once per day may export around 10,000kWh per year, and would need to achieve 10p per kWh arbitrage to generate an income of £1,000. I'm not aware of any tariffs that would facilitate that, although conceivably someone with a large battery system on Octopus Flux could get close if they were able to import and export fast enough during the respective 3 hour windows (minimum 10kW charge and discharge/export rate required).

I would have to check, as the inverter generates AC from DC..

With 30kWh, over 8kW export, optimisation of import and export and on currently available tariffs (assuming the current rates stay roughly the same around the year), it is certainly possible to exceed that yearly income.

But the ROI may be negative specially if 3k or so are expended on MCS related labour and paperwork!

 

Yes, of course the total income from export could be greater than £1,000, so we need to understand if import costs for arbitrage are allowable expenses to be deducted so that tax is only paid on the profit from arbitrage rather than the total revenue generated. I see these as legitimate input costs into the business model and thus deductible, but I am not a tax lawyer. Then there is amortisation of the initial capital costs.

Yes, and an individual potentially impacted may want to argue for inclusion of the BESS system under S782A Income Tax (Trading and Other Income) Act 2005, since the alignment and support for decarbonisation is very obvious. Plenty of DESNZ / Ofgem / BEIS policy documents would support that view.  I do not see how a counter-argument could be credible. And given the general environment, how would peak electricity ever have a lower carbon footprint than overnight..

@batpred When investing in some ‘Kilowatts’ of generation with the late Ripple Energy, they stated that investors may buy up to 120% of their annual consumption; this in itself sounded as though someone had perused the Inland Revenue guidelines to avoid tax penalties. Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @toodles

↑

@batpred When investing in some ‘Kilowatts’ of generation with the late Ripple Energy, they stated that investors may buy up to 120% of their annual consumption; this in itself sounded as though someone had perused the Inland Revenue guidelines to avoid tax penalties. Regards, Toodles.

Indeed, but HMRC subsequently rejected their claim and ruled that all income from Ripple was taxable as they failed the first test listed above:

1. the system is installed at or near domestic premises occupied by the individual

One can also argue that Ripple is not exactly "a microgeneration system" given their size. So income from Ripple is taxable if it exceeds your £1000 side hustle allowance (you should have received a tax statement from Ripple or administrating co-op detailing how much is treated as income and how much is return of your capital)

No different really to the income I receive from holding shares in UK Wind or various solar farms listed on the FTSE - I receive dividends that are subject to dividend tax if held outside of a tax wrapper, or income tax when drawn if held within a SIPP. It's all taxable income one way or another unless held within an ISA.

@old_scientist 

Thanks, so I’m unlikely to get them chasing me. You are correct, they have zero visibility of my self consumption, I assume that why they have resorted to vehicle mileage checks at MOT for the new EV charges. 

@old_scientist I am looking forward to the first payment from the Ripple Co-Op about August this year and as you say, that was Ripple’s plan that HMRC subsequently brought a large boot down on. I only mentioned it as the ‘120%’ seems to be a significant figure as in other discussions. I have made my financial advisors aware of the situation and they have copies of my existing paperwork. Methods of payment have still not been settled and I await this information. I do have ISA’s with my FA’s and this may well be our next move. Regards, Toodles.

Posted by: @old_scientist

↑

No different really to the income I receive from holding shares in UK Wind or various solar farms listed on the FTSE - I receive dividends that are subject to dividend tax if held outside of a tax wrapper, or income tax when drawn if held within a SIPP. It's all taxable income one way or another unless held within an ISA.

That makes sense. They are companies that are on markets for business and for investment.